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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Silva, the Long Term, and the Silver Lining

Hey, I am as pissed off about this move as the rest of you.  However, I would like to focus on the bright side of this whole debacle.  

Unlike most other silver lining explanations of this move, I am nost going to waste anyones time BSing about how this is going to help the club win more games, because signing Silva for more than $5 mil per year is pretty much stupid.  He isn't a terrible pitcher.  He is just the type of guy that is useful only before he hits free agency.  Only stupid teams sign guys like this to multi-year deals in free agency.  However, the M's are a stupid team.  That is where the bright side of this deal is.  

The biggest problem the M's have is their general manager and front office.  It is pretty much a 100% certainty that this is a 'win or else' year for Bavasi et al.  Thus, we are watching Bill make desperation moves to save his ass.  That is what is so frustrating about this club.  They don't realize that they aren't legit contenders, and they don't have any clue how to get to that point in the first place.  The inability to evaluate talent is an unconquerable obstacle in this organization.  They just won't be a good team unless changes are made at the top.    

I am hoping that this will be one of the last nails in Bavasi's coffin.  As it stands now, the M's aren't anything resembling a contender.  The Angels are far and away the biggest lock to win their division in baseball.  Adding Silva, plus a few additional minor moves - maybe one of the guys coming off injury like Clement, Colon, Jennings, Garcia or Prior - aren't going to be enough for the M's to close the gap.  

Assuming that this is the big move of the offseason, I would argue that the M's are barely a .500 club.  That is enough to get Bavasi fired.  Most likley, the Angels will win around 95 games and the M's will be effectively out of contention by July.  

Hopefully, this is the worst that Bavasi does to fuck up the roster that his replacement will inherit.  If that is true, this isn't the end of the world.  

If Bavasi manages to not trade away any young talent or lock us in to other terrible contracts, the M's roster will be in relatively good shape.  Sexson, Ibanez, Bloomquist, and Johjima are off the books after 2008.  Washburn, Beltre, Batista, and Vidro are off the books the following year.  While guys like Washburn, Batista, and Silva aren't good contracts, they aren't immovable albatrosses either, especially with the price of mediocre starters going up every year.  By mid-season, and especially by the next offseason, those contracts could actually have trade value.  If Bavasi gets canned, his successor could move some contracts and regain flexibility pretty easily.  

The M's have some near-ML-ready young talent and a few guys locked up on good value contracts for a few years.  This would be an easy club to get back into contention, if we only had the right GM.  

Hopefully, this is Bavasi's last failure.  In that sense, perhaps this is some sort of rock-bottom moment.  Sorta like the DWI that forces an alcoholic to re-evaluate his life and get help.  I certainly hope so, because it sucks going into an offseason knowing that the guy running the club just doesn't get it.  

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How many times
have M's fans said this?

Hopefully, this is Bavasi's last failure.

I have absolutely zero hope that that is the case.  I'm totally projecting here, I have no sources in the FO or the Mariner organization, but it seems to me that in the eyes of Lincoln/Armstrong, Bavasi's doing a good job.

I'm guessing they probably look at the following:  Bavasi has improved the team's W/L, attendance hasn't dropped off a cliff (it has dropped, but nowhere near catastrophic levels) despite missing the playoffs for five years, and the 'average fan' no doubt sees the acquisition of Carlos Silva as an unrequited positive.  He's a big name, after all.

It is pretty much a 100% certainty that this is a 'win or else' year for Bavasi et al.

Nope.  that was last year, and the M's improved enough in the W column that I think Bavasi's off the hook in 2008.

Bavasi had a very public mandate last year - improve or be gone.  This year, there's been no such statement; I may be reading what's not there, but it seems to me that the brass are happy with the job he did.

I would argue that the M's are barely a .500 club.  That is enough to get Bavasi fired.

I'm as unhappy with Bavasi as the next fan, but I'm also not thinking in terms of "when Bavasi gets fired", because barring a 42-120 season, the reality is he's probably not going anywhere for the 2008 season, and probably beyond that.

As long as the M's remain in mid-table obscurity, winning more than they lose and sniffing the playoffs until August, I think Bavasi's probably safe.  That depresses the hell out of me, but it's also probably the reality of the situation.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 19, 2007 1:12 PM PST reply actions  

it says a lot
about the free agent class when Carlos Silva is a big name..

by CKel on Dec 19, 2007 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

true
I doubt the casual fan has ever even heard of him.
Pregnancy takes nine months, no matter how many women you put on the job.

by zagreusmd on Dec 20, 2007 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Bavasi doesn't need to win
If I had a dollar for every time someone here or at USSMariner said, "This is the year Bavasi has to win to keep his job," I'd be several dollars richer.

For reference, here's an old thread from this very  blog:

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/comments/2007/1/12/134528/346/22#22

You'll note that, back then, Bavasi was hanging by a thread. The team had to make the playoffs, or else. Turns out, "or else" was pretty much the same as what came before.

So how do we know this is the year when Bavasi actually needs to win, as opposed to the other years when we only thought that he needed to win? The answer is, we don't. It's entirely possible that the M's could lose 100 games and still bring Bill back for another try. Anyone who pretends to 100% certainty is fantasizing.

Pregnancy takes nine months, no matter how many women you put on the job.

by zagreusmd on Dec 20, 2007 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Wrong
I am sorry, but your whole post is pretty much incorrect.  

Last year, the ultimatum for Bavasi was that the team needed to show marked improvment for him to stay on.  I don't remember ever seeing anyone in the front office say 'make the playoffs or your done'.  

Nobody would argue that the M's didn't take a huge step forward last year.  Its an empirical fact.  

The lack of noise from Lincoln has everything to do with how many times his 'hot seat' comments were quoted in the media.  I am sure that he regretted that quote the minute after he issued it.  

What I was arguing is that the M's are set up to slide backwards in the standings.  Barring huge moves, I don't see them hitting 88 wins again, and all it would take is a little bad luck for them to slide back under .500.  

I think that costs him his job.  

I hope it does.  

by Jerry on Dec 20, 2007 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Um...
I am sorry, but your whole post is pretty much incorrect.  

Last year, the ultimatum for Bavasi was that the team needed to show marked improvment for him to stay on.  I don't remember ever seeing anyone in the front office say 'make the playoffs or your done'.

I don't remember PDB making that statement either. He's saying that as long as ticket sales are still up and the team "contends" that will be enough for Lincoln.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 20, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh.
He missed.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 20, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup
You are correct.  That reply was intended for zagreusmd.  Oops, my bad.  

by Jerry on Dec 20, 2007 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Also...
"last nail in Bavasi's coffin" is most certainly not equivalent to "changes at the top."

The problems with the Ms goes WAAAAYYYYY beyond the GM spot (though Bavasi's weaknesses magnify them). This is an organization wedded to 19th Century models of player evaluation, player development and roster construction. No way is that fixed by getting rid of Bavasi. Need to sweep out the entire front office (the assistance to the presidents, the various directors pertaining to players, etc.) up to and including the President and anyone else that doesn't report to him but does to the CEO (and replace him as well).

by rtang on Dec 19, 2007 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

But when it comes to ticket prices
they are on the edge of economic thinking!! As Jeff says, Silva-Linings!
I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Dec 19, 2007 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?
I thought it was yesterday's pants...
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 19, 2007 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Just for the record
I resisted making that same joke because I didn't want to cheapen the debate.  I hope you're happy.  YOU'VE RUINED CHRISTMAS!

/*should probably not drink soda at lunch

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 19, 2007 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

That'll be Friday
at the open bar christmas lunch, after which we get the afternoon off.  This is my first year with this company, and I think they don't quite understand that I view the words "open bar" as a challenge.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 19, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

i wish you the best of luck
may you overcome your challenge and make that open bar an empty bar before the night/afternoon is over

by seattlebruin on Dec 19, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

It's good to have goals
and the fact they're giving us the rest of the afternoon off is an extra wedge of lime in that particular gin and tonic.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 19, 2007 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

It was chianti for me today.
I just got back from our Christmas lunch. Unfortunately I had to come back to work for a while afterwards.

Still, decent Italian food, and a few glasses of chianti isn't a bad way to spend a few hours of the work day.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Dec 19, 2007 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

If you want Bavasi gone
you better pray harder for a 75-win season.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 19, 2007 1:36 PM PST reply actions  

Make that 60
102 losses might motivate changes. Might. 87 losses will not.
Pregnancy takes nine months, no matter how many women you put on the job.

by zagreusmd on Dec 20, 2007 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Wasn't Bavasi's nail in the coffin
Mo Vaughn?  

Oh, wait - yeah, then we hired him.

"back in the day, Reggie Jackson would have called that a 'tits high' pitch" - Dave Henderson
the log

by OlyOle on Dec 19, 2007 2:01 PM PST reply actions  

We'll go somewhere else for milk.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 19, 2007 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

M's are lactose intolerant
Im afraid they are looking to trade the farm so it appears they are trying..dammmmmmn
I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Dec 19, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

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