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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

It Was The Blurst Of Times

Anyone wanna get loaded?

Carlos Silva, perhaps the top starting pitcher remaining on the free-agent market, does not figure to be available much longer.

The Mariners are in serious negotiations with Silva on a contract that would be worth at least $44 million over four years, according to major-league sources.

I'll try to talk about this a little more later on, once I can get my brain to think in terms beyond how fucking retarded this is.

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Amen
UGHHHHHHHHHHHH

by phil333 on Dec 18, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting to wish
Smulyan moved the M's to Tampa, and then we got the expansion franchise that Tampa got.  We would have been able to root for Jose Canseco, Fred McGriff, and Greg Vaughn, and would now have an exciting team.

by david h on Dec 18, 2007 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I megaloathe this
thank god I'm on vacation the rest of this week. Anyone want to hit up a bar after 5pm tonight and drink to this deal?

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Megaloathe.
Best. Word. Ever.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Dec 18, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I sucked at pitching.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 18, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on...
I hate being a Mariners fan.  Absolutely hate it.

by tait644 on Dec 18, 2007 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

seriously
why do we continue to try? you know, try to be fans and all...
"You just got AJ-aculated on! In Baltimore?"

by wwbaker3 on Dec 18, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Seconded
I'd be more surprised if the M's acually did something that makes sense, at this point.  They've had 30 years to get it right, and rarely have they done so; why should this winter be any different?

Anybody else wanna argue that the M's are one Bedard away from making the postseason, now?  Anybody? Bueller?  Bueller?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 18, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm.
Money maximization stupidity aside, he likely will be an improvement over Ho and/or Weaver.  So, for 2008, it's a helpful move (even if the long-term albatross risk is there, and if there were better options available).  

If the M's get Bedard without surrendering Jones, then yeah, I'll argue the M's are a playoff team.  But since it's assumed that landing Bedard means Jones is gone, yeah, I'm less inclined to believe that.  

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 18, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again
being an improvement over Horacio/Weaver doesn't mean anything. They were just about as bad as is humanly possible last year, in terms of runs allowed. Hell, you could bring back Horacio and Weaver and they'd be better than last year's Horacio and Weaver.

As far as being helpful in 2008 is concerned, you could say the same thing if we hypothetically threw $100m at Livan Hernandez. So what? Money matters. Flexibility matters.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just trying to be positive...
Yeah, although I'm not sure Livan Hernandez is much better than Ho and Weaver.  Still, Silva isn't a horrible pitcher, and he will help.  He's better than some guys they could sign, even if we're paying too much for him.  

And we ARE bringing back Horacio...

>:-{

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 18, 2007 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh.
Really?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Weaver and Ho
cost their team as many runs as Livan Hernandez did. And they did it in a real league. Over more innings too, once you combine their numbers (meaning they're worth less negative runs per inning).

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat:
Ugh.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is that
factoring the difference in ballpark?
"You guys should be in every major city. This is some heavy shit. This is, like, Lone Ranger heavy, man."

by AZSEAfan on Dec 18, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed. I'm happy its not worse.
I really saw something retarded like 5/$70 coming.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 18, 2007 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one who doesn't hate this move?
Silva's not great, but Washburn/Batista/Silva should pitch a lot of innings with decent numbers (i.e. be a good backend of the rotation).  The challenge will be to develop another TOR pitcher from within the system - and with Morrow, Tillman, Butler, Ramirez, Aumonte, etc, that seems at least possible.

Or maybe I'm just a contrarian and overly optimistic?

by worley on Dec 18, 2007 11:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

He's better than
Ho or Weaver. There's just no question there. He's NOT 4 years and 44 million dollars better than Ho or Weaver.

by I'm NOT Corco on Dec 18, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Silva the pitcher is okay
Silva for four years and $11m per is ridiculous. There's no other way around it.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's true
... the real downside isn't having Silva, it's the opportunity cost of not being able to spend that money somewhere else (i.e. on an actual star player).

Still, I think we need to be realistic about who the Mariners are.  Seattle will never be like LA, NYC, etc - places where the best players choose to play.  Our star players will have to come from within the system (where they have to play for us).

Or, to put it another way, the real concern is player development and having enough budget room to keep homegrown talent (Felix, Jones, etc).  We can overspend on mediocre players (since we have money and no stars who will take it) as long as we can develop and keep our own star players.

by worley on Dec 18, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that's true.
Players follow the money. Seattle just offers the money to the wrong players.

But, yeah, the emphasis should always be on player development.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Kuroda
...just take less money with the Dodgers?

Seattle isn't a major market, and salary is only a single revenue stream for today's players. If they want to diversify  their income through things like endorsement contracts or the high media profile that might translate into a broadcasting contract when their career is over, a city like New York, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles is just far more appealing. I think we've seen that at play more than once, with players like Delgado keeping the Mariners in play just long enough for bigger-market teams like the Mets to up the ante.

Seattle is in a better position than cities like Kansas City or Milwaukee, but it's not top-tier, either.

Pregnancy takes nine months, no matter how many women you put on the job.

by zagreusmd on Dec 18, 2007 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

n/s
People don't play here because we're not going to the world series because we're managed so poorly. You'd think that would open some eyes. Sadly, no.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 4:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh to be a
mediocre free agent starter.

by Paytheline on Dec 18, 2007 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no no no no no no no no no
I refuse to acknowledge that this is happening. It's not happening. We're going to build for the future, going to trade for some nice young pitching from Tampa or Milwaukee, we're going to rebuild around the kids. My fingers are in my ears. We're not interested in Silva. We're not interested.

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkk

by Nick S on Dec 18, 2007 11:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Go Sens Go?
Given the M's continued love of contact pitching is any word on whether Geoff Jenkins is still close to signing with Philly/San Diego?

by ningwers on Dec 18, 2007 11:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

This is why trading away our future for Bedard
would have been okay.  Fuck fuck fuck

by Zack on Dec 18, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

please explain more
I'm not sure I get your point.  I think I do, but could you explain it more.
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 18, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just assumed that we were either pulling off
the Bedard deal or overpaying for Silva/Lohse, but not both.

I'd rather we do neither, but if I had to choose I think I'd give up AJ and whatever for Bedard than be hamstrung by yet another back end starter for 3-4 years.

by Zack on Dec 18, 2007 11:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be an improvement on HoRam
if we get Colon, we'll have paid too much, but our rotation will be better, for what that's worth.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 18, 2007 11:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

We won't get Colon.
And being better than Horacio Ramirez is not an appropriate benchmark. Matt Clement is better than Horacio Ramirez. Jeff Weaver is better than Horacio Ramirez. You're better than Horacio Ramirez. The wall in front of me is better than Horacio Ramirez.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2:1 odds
says they don't go for Bedard anymore, and instead try to "Develop" Ho Ram using our new, "skilled" pitching coach.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I fully expect the Mariners to wave the "Mission Accomplished" banner for this offseason. Hey! They picked up two pitchers! Dickey and Silva FTW!
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Dec 18, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you mean the price he commands
Because not...

No, wait, you're right.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was on tv today
Ahh happiness in these horrible times.

by phil333 on Dec 18, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope it was on a commercial channel
because a movie like Clerks or The Big Lebowski on a channel like comedy central leads to hilarity. The absolute best was from There's Something About Mary: "You're such a Froggin Ashbone".

by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Dec 18, 2007 7:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is what happens Larry!
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS!

by Patrick517 on Dec 18, 2007 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN YOU FEED A SOLDIER SCRAMBLED EGGS!!!
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 19, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

condolances
gents

by kenshin1 on Dec 18, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cause I fell on....
black days...

I fell on black days.

:(

by Slica on Dec 18, 2007 11:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well
you like ground ball pitchers.......
A's fan-hence the "A"

by mikeA on Dec 18, 2007 11:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Painful.
I'm starting to think bandwagon fans are a lot smarter than I am.

by ryanhealy on Dec 18, 2007 11:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

This should have been more like a 4/30
or 3/24 type deal.  Even w/ todays god awful FA costs.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 18, 2007 12:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Look on the bright side
He's probably a better pitcher than Kuroda.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 12:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It could be worse
i dont know how but it could be.  And who knows if kudora would have been any better then silva. and why do monkeys throw poo at me at the zoo.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

by wadswerth on Dec 18, 2007 12:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Silva will flourish as a Mariner!!
If Silva is indeed going to be a Mariner, I welcome him with open arms, big hugs, and sloppy kisses!! Why?

Well because he pitches in the Metrodome and garners pretty good numbers. Pitching in a more pitcher-friendly park like Safeco would most certainly lower his career statistics, where he could plausibly post an ERA under 4, and a WHIP under 1.3!

Think of the positives! This could mean we won't be giving up the farm for Bedard as well.

A rotation of:

  1. Felix
  2. Silva
  3. Washburn
  4. B-Tits
  5. Baek/Morrow/RRS
really doesn't sound THAT bad, now does it? This isn't counting other various free agent pitchers the Mariners might try to aquire. (hopefully for less money, and less years, but I digress)

Don't be so down on our friend from Ciudad Bolivar, Venezuela!! He might just surprse you.

Silva! Silva! Silva! Silva! Silva!

We WANT Silva, damn it!

by I Heart Silva on Dec 18, 2007 12:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Silva4MVP - he at least needs a signed contract.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick and Dirty Calculations
 Note: I am a Reds fan who happened to be checking the site, since I saw a blurb that Silva was signing with Seattle. I'm thrilled as a Reds fan, since Silva would be a horrible fit in Cincinnati. It's a hitters park, and also since Silva puts alot of balls in play, that would have been bad news for Reds fans, as we don't have a quality defense.

 That said, @ least Seattle's home park is a good pitchers park, and you have some quality defenders like Ichiro and Beltre. Betancourt and Lopez are above avg correct? (I watch maybe 4 Mariner games a year, so I could be wrong)

 Anyway, your fantastic 4 some, Weaver, Baek, Ramirez and Feierabend had a 6.49 ERA last year. (I'm too lazy so subtract the few innings Baek and   Feierabend had in relief)  So in 367 Ip, they gave up 265 ER's.  Yikes!

 I know what your GM is thinking. If they get 180 innings out of Silva, with a 4.50 ERA. (Which based on his history is attainable) That 2 ER savings per 9 compared to the quartet last year equates to a 40 earned runs savings.  40 fewer runs allowed is significant.

 In fact, if later you were able to trade for Bedard, and he posted a 3.15 ERA over 190 innings. You basically will save another 70 earned runs over the course of the season.  That is potentially 110 fewer runs allowed than last year with a Silva and Bedard addition.  I think that puts your pythagorean theorem @ ~ 90 wins. (assuming your hitting stays the same)

 AS I said, quick and dirty calculations, so the numbers may be off.  But really, when you can get a 4.50 ERA guy to replace a 6.20 ERA guy (Weaver) that is a freaking huge upgrade. Nearly 2 runs per 9 innings. over the course of a season, it adds up.  (Plus the benefit of a more rested bullpen if your starters can go deeper into games)

  The Mariners need 2 SP's to really contend. They have no real internal options correct? Morrow maybe? Meh. Silva, while he isn't worth this type of money actually helps out the team a bit. If this deal is coupled with a Bedard deal. (Very likely since the Reds will likely not trade Jay Bruce so I think talks are stalled.) Then all of a sudden, a Bedard, Felix, Batista, Silva, Washburn rotation gets you into the Wild Card and AL West chase.  

 Also, if the Silva signing is coupled with Bedard, they will prolly see increased ticket revenues as they will be fighting for the playoffs. Is it wrong to think they could up their attendance by 200,000 fans or more? That's extra revenue they will generate that offsets part of the money spent signing Silva. I think now the Mariners will go hard after Bedard. They can now be competitive, and that will translate into an increase in revenue. But without Bedard, they likely won't be a Wild Card quality team, and thus won't see that big bump in attendance. A 80 win team, will see about the same attendance as an 83 win team. However, if Bedard puts them up to a 90 win team-- then you have something.

I just typed way too much. I can see where your  GM was coming from. From a business perspective, signing Silva in addition to getting Bedard,(Big if) could show some short term gains in terms of performance on the field, and also increase Seattle's revenue stream. Debating the impact of trading Jones, Clement and Morrow for Bedard is a topic for another day.

  If the Pirates signed Silva, this deal would be awful. It wouldn't really increase the Pirates revenue stream. But, a Silva and Bedard addition to the Mariners would.  Remember, this is a business. While it seems like it's a so-so signing from an on the field baseball standpoint, when you factor in other variables, it's not as bad. Of course, if the Mariners can't get Bedard, well then, you wouldn't get the bump in revenue and thus will be looking to compete in 2009.

 I don't feel like rereading and editing, so there  may be a few flaws.  However, if you guys get Bedard with Silva, I think you are tremendously improved as a baseball team.    

by m a u r i c e on Dec 18, 2007 12:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

You're dramitically overrating our defense
Silva/Bedard combined would be a 60 run improvement if last season's defensive alignment was kept intact, not 110. Team D was on the order of -50 runs.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's assuming
no one improves on defense which you can expect from both Yuni and Lopez as they adjust more and more.

Who knows about Raul or Sexson.... but anyone in RF vs. Guillen should be a defensive improvement as well... that's not to say the improvement will be grossly better, but there is definitely reason to believe there will be improvement.

by MfaninAlaska on Dec 18, 2007 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but that'd be nothing to do with pitching
You could get the same change in run differential Silva gives you merely by taking Raul's glove away from him, and that wouldn't cost you $44 million dollars.

If they combine this signing with being smart w/r/t defense, we could turn into an 85 win team with the potential to get lucky. If not, we got 2 wins better for $44 million more than was necessary. Hooray.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Our defense will be better
one could argue substantially better thanks to RF alone.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Even in that nightmare scenario
we pretty much have to end up with a better glove in right than we had.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

jeremy reed is a defensive upgrade in right!!
and he'll hit like a real RF too for the 12 games a year we play in socal

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why
Graham, why would we include the - 50 runs in this calculation?

 Hypotethically if Felix improved his ERA by 3 runs per 9, and Washburn improved his ERA by 2.50 runs per game, then that would mean they allowed 110 fewer runs then last year. Why would you want to subtract 50 runs based on defense by adding 2 pitchers in Bedard and Silva? It's the same difference as Felix and Washburn magically improving their ERA by 3 runs and 2.5 runs respectively.

 Defense doesn't matter here. Unless you are saying I'm overestimating their projected ERA's in 2008 because their former team had better defense than Seattle?

  I guess it would be better if I asked where you got the -50 runs for Team Defense? Graham, if you send me a link where you got this info, then I should be able to answer my own question. Thanks.  

 

by m a u r i c e on Dec 18, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

RE:
"Unless you are saying I'm overestimating their projected ERA's in 2008 because their former team had better defense than Seattle?"

Yep, this is it.

And my defensive numbers are from my own research into pitching component stats, but the Hardball Times has team defense numbers here, about halfway don't the page.

by Graham on Dec 19, 2007 3:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not the end of the world
He isn't going to cost a good young prospect. He won't cost a single draft pick.
visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Dec 18, 2007 12:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

But he costs us a rotation spot for four years
and a not insignificant amount of money.

It's a bad move to go with all of Bavasi's other bad moves. They add up quick.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Costs us a rotation spot?
Oh no!!

God forbid we fill a spot with talent such highly respected as Ryan Fierabend, Horacio Ramirez, Jeff Weaver, Chris Bosio, Travis Blackley, Clint Nageotte, Bob Wolcott, or Joel Piniero! Then we might actually have something going next season.

We WANT Silva, damn it!

by I Heart Silva on Dec 18, 2007 12:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So, you're saying that
Morrow, Tillman are both ready to start?

I'd agree with that argument if he would be actually  blocking anyone.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Dec 18, 2007 12:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody's denying that we need starters.
We just don't need to overpay mediocre ones.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again, Bavasi got confused!
He was told to go acquire a Twins pitcher from Venezuela and he got the wrong one!!

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 12:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like this signing.
The pup that laughs when you're down on your luck.

by Scrappy the Scapegoat on Dec 18, 2007 12:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

They're raising ticket prices for this?
It's pretty sad when I look at this deal the first thing that comes to my mind is "well, that's pretty much what I expected".

Yes folks, as expected, we're still overpaying for mediocrity.

Better watch out Angels fans, we're Team Mediocre and we're comin' TO GET YOU!

by ThundaPC on Dec 18, 2007 12:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

is this a done deal?
or is there a chance we can still get out of this. or maybe its like 3/30. or maybe...

oh screw it, im just gonna get used to four years of carlos silva with the unfortunate knowlegde that whenever i get to a game, with my bad luck, he'll be pitching (i only got to two games last year... and the starters were... jeff weaver and jeff weaver. ugh...)

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 12:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Say it with me now:
Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Omar Vizquel. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical.

by david h on Dec 18, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i should repeat this sequence at least twice
Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Omar Vizquel. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical.

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better not...
Because, as bad as this is, Plan D (4/44 for Lohse) is WORSE.  

//Guillen-->Omar >>>>>> Guillen-->Santiago/JuanGone

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 18, 2007 12:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say it now.
And I'll repeat it and again and again until our only options left are 1 year deals or non-major trades.

Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical. Failed physical.

by david h on Dec 18, 2007 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Man
what makes this worse is that Silva is just so boring. Can we at least get some mediocre pitchers who can throw 95 or strike a batter out?

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tomorrow:
Carlos Triunfel traded to Baltimore for Daniel Cabrera.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See?
Exciting!

That would be a lot of fun to watch from afar after I move to Tampa Bay.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really, we couldn't have just tried to go all
blockbuster with the O's and snagged another SP in the deal? Whatever.

2008 rotation:
Felix!
Mediocre LHP
Mediocre RHP
Mediocre RHP
Factor X

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
At least we can stop complaining that there has been no news lately.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He will from us
if we don't get Silva.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
we are on the market for 2 starters.

by david h on Dec 18, 2007 12:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably something like that
He's a Boras client and last I heard Boras was pitching a five-year deal for him.

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 12:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If that happens
I think Scott Boras should apply for his own stage show in Vegas, because he'd clearly be the world's top magician.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think
"At least we didn't sign Kyle Lohse" may become the motto of the offseason.  That's pretty sad.

by Nadingo on Dec 18, 2007 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

on the bright side....
Silva shines against the AL West

vs. LAA

6/20 W (beat Lackey)6.2 IP, 10 hits, 4 runs
8/11 ND 7 IP, 2 hits, 0 runs. (Neshek blows game in 8th)

vs. TEX
5/21 L 4.1 IP, 9 hits, 7 ER, 1 HR (Catalonatto)
8/17 ND 7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 1 HR (Saltalamaccia)
9/28 W 6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 5 K

vs. OAK
6/2 L (1-0 to Blanton) 8.0 Complete Game, 5 hits, 1 run, 2 K.  (Run was scored on a double play)
7/14 W 6.2 IP, 2 hits, 3 runs, 4 K

45.2 innings pitched, 3.58 ERA

by tkballer22 on Dec 18, 2007 12:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

ssshhhhhhhh
Hope killer.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows...
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Dec 18, 2007 12:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

And Duvel
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 18, 2007 12:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Start the countdown
The bad news has begun and you know it comes in threes so how long before these happen?
  1. Jones/Clement/Sherrill/Butler traded for Bedard
  2. Raul Ibanez 2 year extension for 2009-10 @ $10-12M per.
FWIW, I fully expect both of these to occur.

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 12:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think it's more likely
that the M's just offer Ibanez a lifetime contract at $10 mill per.  It will include access to the team's whiteout and photocopier each year to change the dates and re-sign.

by david h on Dec 18, 2007 12:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Willie and Tuglett = Team's Whiteout.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 1:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if were going to be that depressed
lets move ichiro back to right and let raul patrol center too

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 1:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Seconded
Our team should be as hilarious as possible.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 18, 2007 1:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

or we could draw
the starters positions out of a hat before each game!

imagine going to the park and never knowing if raul was going to be in center, or yuni at first, or richie sexson on the hill. actually richie playing any position other than first would be pretty damn hilarious

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we could
even have brandon morrow as a starting pitcher!

oh wait... they're actually going to try that next year

by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Ichiro pitched from centerfield
Could we have a roving fifth infielder/fourth outfielder?

by patsfan on Dec 18, 2007 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Ichiro played both center and left
could would use him in the batting order twice?

it would give him a chance to really show his range and any extra doubles you give up would likely be neutralized from his 10AB's per game.

by Mark on Dec 18, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey hey hey
you know what's good?

That's pretty good right there.

I'll be fascinated/terrified to see who they've got in the outfield to start the season.
If they can get Ibanez out, plug Jones + somebody decent at the other corner, get improvement from Betancourt... this team's going to give up a lot fewer runs.  
Yes, I know the team will take that fact as evidence that their 'plan' is 'working.'   I don't really care who gets credit or who knows correlation isn't causation and who doesn't.   I just want a good team again.  

by marc w on Dec 18, 2007 1:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'll Play Devil's Advocate
  • We don't incur the opportunity cost of losing Jones/Clement/Morrow or draft picks.
  • Ten bucks says he'll be better than Kuroda, and we were about to give him the same amount of money.  We weren't this low on Kuroda, were we?
  • Bill Bavasi was most likely mandated by the suits to go get a proven starter to stabilize the rotation.  He's forced into making a bad choice.  At least he chose the least-bad of the options.  Lohse would have been worse.  Kuroda would have been worse.  Raping the farm for Bedard would have been worse.
Given said things, I'm not exactly happy, but I'm actually not ready to throw Bill under the bus.  He did what he could given the idiot suits above him.

by oneiric232 on Dec 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you entirely
I'm just really pissed off that it came to this in the first place.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This isn't about the "suits"
the Mariners honestly don't know how to evaluate pitchers beyond simple things like ERA.

As for point #1, we're not done yet.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I agree.
I'm not saying that if Bill had the authority to do whatever he wanted, he would make good decisions.  They're thoroughly ignorant.

I'm just saying that his incompetence probably didn't have an opportunity to come fully into play here.  I'd be surprised if his hand wasn't forced by idiocy coming from higher up the chain.

FIRE LINCOLN AND ARMSTRONG!

by oneiric232 on Dec 18, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, you're right.
Wouldn't Kuroda's contract have technically been worse? Other than that extra year, I guess.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Extra year is a killer
But I'm fairly sure Silva is better than Kuroda

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 1:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.
Also, with Kuroda, THEY (misinformed as they are) expected him to do really well here because of how his numbers were in Japan. There is no reason to expect "Really well" from Silva, so their heart is not even in the right place for this signing.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

out of curiousity - why?
What is it about Kuroda that people hate?
The scouting reports, or the repertoire in general?

Not saying he's gonna win a Cy Young, but I'm just sort of curious as to how this Kuroda Sucks idea took hold so quickly?

by marc w on Dec 18, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he sucks
I think he's a little below league average while Silva's a little better than league average.

And yep, I'm just going off what I've read on the blogs about his stuff and people's impressions of him, because Japanese translations are all a bit messy so I don't bother.

by Graham on Dec 18, 2007 2:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Silva gets bombed by lefties.
Doesn't go well with this park.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 18, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not ready to concede #1 yet
but I agree with you on the Kuroda thing.  It all gets back to the way the FO evaluates talent, though, which is, by all appearances, the same way I do my preseason picks - I have my Aspergers-afflicted 4 year old nephew do them for me.  He usually does about as well at that as Bavasi & Co. do at evaluating who to overspend on.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 18, 2007 1:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bavasi always seems to be talking
about how he doesn't like to make moves because he feels like he has to make a move.

Yet it seems like 90% of the time that's exactly what he does.

by I'm NOT Corco on Dec 18, 2007 1:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ironically,
because when he doesn't have to make a move but should, he doesn't.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 1:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just wonder where that pressure comes from
when he says he doesn't want to move because he feels like he has to, does he feel like that because of the fanbase, or because of the FO?  If it's the fanbase, that's pathetic; if it's the FO, it's understandable, but still not good.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 18, 2007 1:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We should withhold rage
The Mariners are in serious negotiations with Silva on a contract that would be worth at least $44 million over four years, according to major-league sources.

until after the bolded term is resolved.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 1:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that like someone telling to withhold
being worried after you've been told you have at least ebola?

by ningwers on Dec 18, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes actually.
Save the hurt for when you know how bad it is. Then release.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Dec 18, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
I read the bolded and think we should amp it up.

by Paytheline on Dec 18, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jebus
Does this mean Bavasi gives Washburn a 3/40 extension?

by Ben in Va on Dec 18, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I really don't care
Just like I didn't care about the Kuroda offer. I think a Jones/Morrow/Sherrill/plus for Bedard deal would hamstring us more than Silva's salary. Weaver, Guillen, and Broussard just came off the books. Sexson only has one more year, Washburn has two. I'm okay with spending some of that money on a stopgap type veteran if that's what enables us to keep our young hitters and let them develop.

But then, Silva is more in the Washburn/Batista class, in my mind, than the HoRam/Weaver class. Maybe others disagree with that. If we were offering four years to, say, Kyle Lohse, I'd be more horrified.

by chaney on Dec 18, 2007 3:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious
because I can't really get a clear take on the opinions here so let me ask this question.

Is Silva a bad signing because of his ability or is it just because of the years and money that he's a bad signing?

by MfaninAlaska on Dec 18, 2007 3:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bad because of money
I think it helps to hamstring payroll flexibility.

I am kind of bleh on this move. I think he is better than Kuroda but we got him for an extra year.

by Ben in Va on Dec 18, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm.
Dave Cameron to the rescue...  Or at least his side of the story anyway.
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 18, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Money
I think I'm a little more sympathetic to the idea that eliminating walks is itself a real skill, not just a side-effect of meh stuff, so it's not like I hate the guy.  
My problem is that Cha Freakin' Baek is likely to give you the exact same thing (and waaay more strikeouts) at basically no cost.  Sure, sure, Baek gives up more fly balls.  But that just means he's a better fit for this team and park, and is likely to give you a better hit rate/DER.   Baek's too brittle?  Fine, bring in a half dozen Baek clones from the minors - guys who throw 90, don't walk anyone, few Ks.

Or, you could've gone the high-profile route and nabbed Greg Maddux, who, let's face it, is better at the Greg Maddux skill-set than Carlos Silva will ever be, and was signed on a ONE YEAR deal for LESS money.  
To all the people who are talking about it's what the market rate is.... huh?

by marc w on Dec 18, 2007 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Contract
Silva's perfectly useful, and he'll help us in 2008. But giving that kind of money to a guy who puts mediocre stuff over the plate and crosses his fingers strikes me as a little whack.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At least Silva is competent
And at least we'll almost definitely be keeping Jones and company.

If the Mariners force Morrow into the rotation this year, then at least that means Ho is definitely out a job.

silver lining... silver lining...

by Katal LM on Dec 18, 2007 3:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah?
Ho is as good as gone. He won't be pitching at Safeco in ST. His ERA will balloon just like it should in Pieoria, and he'll be DFA.

crosses fingers

We WANT Silva, damn it!

by I Heart Silva on Dec 18, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What Silva actually means to the team
The word came originally from Latin, meaning woods and, by extension, people that came from forested areas.

So you see, Carlos Silva was meant to pitch in the NW.

It's fate I tell you.

We WANT Silva, damn it!

by I Heart Silva on Dec 18, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sticker shock is wearing off
and I'm finding myself not outraged by the (potential?) deal. It's not great, it's not good, but it's not terrible either. For what Carlos Silva has done and is, $11M/year (if that's what it turns out to be) is in line with market value. The four years part sucks royally and I think that's the main reason behind not liking this. Silva at 2/22? I think we'd be pretty happy with that. At 3/33 I think we'd be treating it like Batista last year, mostly with a collective shrug.

And if it's structured in the manner the other Ms FA SP deals have been, something like 6-10-14-14 then that's only 4/36.5 in NPV.

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 3:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I too am getting over it
it's still dumb, but whatever. At least Silva's on the right side of 30.

by Jeff on Dec 18, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, we get him for ages 29-32
and I think he's a better than fair bet to at least be durable and most likely not suck. God he's boring though.

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Must be nice
But I get two consecutive four day weekends, so yay.

But then I'm a contractor, so if I don't work I don't get paid, so boo.

But four day weekends are good things.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 18, 2007 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is
allegedly on the right side of 30.  Bear in mind that he was supposedly 17 when he debuted in the Appalachian League.

by Paytheline on Dec 18, 2007 6:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

uhh yeah
that's not unusual for international signings

by Matthew on Dec 18, 2007 6:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Major outlets...
Have begun to run with the story...
Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Dec 18, 2007 8:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The should just...
Start handing out contracts to hitters no one would count on to hit and pitchers no one would count on to pitch.

Wait.

Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Dec 18, 2007 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Crazy as it sounds
Silva is probably the best pitcher Bavasi has signed (well, not yet, but basically) with the Mariners.  
Willie Bloomquist > Gary Bettman

by Jake In Palo Alto on Dec 19, 2007 10:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Miguel Batista says hello.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 19, 2007 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So does J.J. Putz!
;-P

//still waiting for GS52's first years of arbi to be bought out, too...

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 19, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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