Haren ----> Arizona
for Carlos Gonzalez, Brett Anderson, Greg Smith, and three other warm bodies.
I won't pretend to know anything about the Diamondbacks prospects, but I will say that I'm happy that Haren's out of the division.
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150 comments
Comments
Hmmm
But Beane knows what he's doing, no doubt. Haren is not a true #1, he's an average #2.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What was the rumor?
by david h on Dec 14, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Aaron Laffey.
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anybody know anything about the
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only from the BA 2007 Handbook
Bret Anderson is a lefty with good control, high 80s fastball, slider, curve, and a good change - very polished, apparently.
Greg Smith is another lefty with a high 80s fastball, good curve, decent change.
Goose is the guy we should be asking, really.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eveland and Carter
I know nothing about Cunningham.
*Or I could be completely misremembering.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like 2 F-bends
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
tRA says he's already an above average starter
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's definitely not close to #1 quality
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by abelard on Dec 14, 2007 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because even with Haren,
Still, you'd think the A's could have gotten a better package.
by Teej on Dec 14, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by abelard on Dec 14, 2007 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where you seeing this at?
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
San Fran Chronicle, Via Rotoworld
Good riddance.
by andrewgolfsalot on Dec 14, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Brett Anderson is a very young lefty starter who put up an 85:10 K:BB ratio this year in the MWL, though he got hit a bit harder in the cal league (duh).
BA's top 10 list had Gonzales #1 and Anderson #3.
It's a good package.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But still rumor, no?
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Valverde to Houston as well
by cookiemonster on Dec 14, 2007 3:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
...huh.
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Gutierrez
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually liked that deal
by Gomez on Dec 14, 2007 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm coming around to it.
I think we could of gotten more, but it's not as bad as I initially thought.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet
by chaney on Dec 14, 2007 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Let's see:
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 3:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+Eveland, Carter, Cunningham
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he retire from the NFL years ago?
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At least our farm system is getting better.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was more just saying
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have we EVER had one of those?
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah we should at least draft one
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure seems that way.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We signed him as an old MiLB free agent.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not bad.
We have a couple of OF'ers in the system like that, but I would kill for a guy that was a great power hitter, even though he has crap D.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not enough of a masher
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Although Ortiz was a late bloomer,
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1B, DH, still looks like the guy can hit a ton.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We tried to get John Mayberry
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that didn't turn out worth a darn.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he COULD'VE signed
Check this out - HS 1Bs return much less than you'd expect given the draft slot whereas college 1B draftees are the most valuable in baseball from 1984-1999.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They could have, but they wouldn't cough up the $
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The study doesn't separate CF vs. LF/RF
Basically, the idea is that the average college team is much more athletic/talented than the average HS team.
If you're a HS 1B, it means you're really unathletic (you should at least be playing 3B or a corner OF). Your margin for error is much slimmer because your only skills are your bat.
If you're a HS 2B, you better be playing next to Alex Rodriguez, because the 2B skillset is just a crappy SS. Again, the lack of defensive ability means you must be carried by your bat.
by Trev on Dec 14, 2007 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or if you're a 1B
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Dana Eveland!
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Anderson is pretty awesome.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I should add
This is not a bad package.
Poor man's Adam Jones + man-with-same-amount-of-money's Tony Butler + rich man's Campillo + some stuff for poor man's ace pitcher?
That sounds about right to me.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a bad package or anything
As a rule of thumb, I'm skeptical of all non-phenom pitching statistics below AA, and Gonzalez doesn't have Jones' glove (nor his bat, although he has a year to catch up).
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair
On most any prospect list, Gonzales is in the Wieters/Snider/Adenhart/Brignac/Votto/Headley class, and I think it'd be a coup to get one of those guys.
I hear you on low-minors stats, but it's sort of striking to me to see a guy in that level put up a nearly 9:1 K:BB ratio. Cut the K's in half and it's still an intriguing line. I bet he's NOT a big K pitcher down the line, but with that kind of ratio his odds of making a rotation, even as a #4 guy, are higher than most.
Most of the time you see teenagers with nice K ratios and meh command, or you see amazing ratios from college guys who are in the MWL at age 22-23.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Webb-Haren-Davis-Owings-Schezer?
And if Rj is healthy? Man.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is it sad that Owings
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
..heh yeah.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They should just go for it
by JI on Dec 14, 2007 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a kickass rotation
by Gomez on Dec 14, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still trying to figure out who Cunningham is
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Came over in the Vazquez trade I believe.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't KNOW?
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's officially a two team race out west now
by Matthew on Dec 14, 2007 3:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by Teej on Dec 14, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, to be clear,
I guess I'm just looking at B-R's adjusted standings that showed the M's, A's and Rangers all within a game of one another. I'm not convinced that the M's are better than the A's with Haren. Seems really close to me.
I guess it's all moot, though, with Haren gone.
by Teej on Dec 14, 2007 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this more quantity over quality for the A's?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 3:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dunno.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
In between Jones and Clement, that sort of level.
To get two of the top 3 from Arizona's system is nothing to turn your nose up at.
This is nothing like the Houston/Tejada deal. Of course, Haren is nothing like Tejada, so, fair play and all that.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I would have thought Haren
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that Carter is the 1B going to Oakland
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Carter's a DH
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Q trade makes sense and so does the
Hey look, a GM with a plan!
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So I guess that answeres the question of
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rotoworld on Gutieirrez
Well, that definitely evens things up a bit. Gutierrez, whose name wasn't included in the initial report of the deal, was right there with Felipe Paulino as one of the top two pitching prospects left in the Houston system. Of the two, he's the better bet to last as a starting pitcher. The 24-year-old could use at least another three months in Triple-A, but he has a chance to be a solid No. 3 or No. 4 for the Diamondbacks in time."
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 3:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The strangest thing about this trade
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The D-Backs were just waiting on Kuroda.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Not a huge difference, but it's there.
by marc w on Dec 14, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just used to Oakland
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There was also talk for a while of Young being
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe Beane couldn't get Young
w/o Chris B. Young, I can't see how this is a good package for Haren.
None of the hitters project as anything but 1B/LF/RF/DH types, which the A's seem to find and develop with ease. If all the guys reach their ceilings, your stuck with an overcrowded slow team and paying a lot ($$ or prospects) for up the middle talent.
I'll grant that Anderson looks interesting, but everyone else looks like back-of-rotation/bullpen filler and the A's are smart enough to know they can just bargain-bin those guys. Everland and Smith don't really add value to a smart team who knows those guys can be found for less.
Haren was Beane's best trade chit, and he couldn't get an Grade A prospect back.
[Of course, I'm sure he threw a chair when Minaya traded Lastings Milledge for Schneider/Church. Haren-for-Milledge would've been a great trade.]
by Trev on Dec 14, 2007 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Jackson
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 14, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know. He had a pretty good 2nd half
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So to recap the D-Backs day:
Traded OF Carlos Gonzalez, LHP Brett Anderson, OF Aaron Cunningham, 1B Chris Carter, LHP Gregg Smith, and LHP Dana Eveland to Oak for RHP Danny Haren.
Traded RHP Jose Valverde to Hou for RHP Chad Qualls, 2B-OF Chris Burke and RHP Juan Guiterrez.
Wow.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think you guys might be overrating Cargon
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty even IMO.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Different needs
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson maybe. And Carter if he can cut down
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are the D'Back fans so down on Cunningham?
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll admit I don't know a whole hell of alot
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get that
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing we're learning is that be weary of
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but he's only spent a year in your system
.270 is major league average.
Not saying he's the second coming or any of that, but he has a chance of being a really solid bat.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe .270/.330/.440 in Oakland?
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess his median looks like
Ceiling is Gar, floor is flameout at AAAA.
All I'm going off is the BP and BA manuals from last year and his minor league numbers though.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ceiling is Gar? That's a bit much don't yeah think
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's a really low chance of that happening
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I.e.
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I'm being too bullish
by Graham on Dec 14, 2007 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
by rfloh on Dec 14, 2007 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Enh
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 2:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The power difference isn't big
Yeah Byrnes was 3 years older relatively speaking at the time of his best season, but he put up a better line in AAA than at AA that year: 301-401-471 at AA, 333-409-547 at AAA.
by rfloh on Dec 15, 2007 6:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard that comp as well. Seems like a good
Just pray he doesn't do sumersaults and that he actually shows up after the All Star Game.
by Goose on Dec 15, 2007 5:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to come around
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will say this though, all that depth the D-Backs
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think they have time to restock.
by Thingray on Dec 14, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not.
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I must not be seeing it
by MrIncognito on Dec 14, 2007 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of depends on your definition of #1
Yeah, I know, "#1" is ambiguous. But while I don't think of him as an ace, he's still really good.
by Jeff on Dec 14, 2007 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To some,
by rfloh on Dec 14, 2007 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In his best year
Meh.
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 2:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The mark Mulder trade still makes
by JI on Dec 14, 2007 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So unless the Dodgers trade for Bedard
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Who knows with that run differential
by Matthew on Dec 14, 2007 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The run differential arguement is a pretty bad one
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it's the holy grail
by Matthew on Dec 14, 2007 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or Blanton
by iglew on Dec 14, 2007 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like a good deal both ways
by Paytheline on Dec 14, 2007 5:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Except they hate it in Oakland
by Paytheline on Dec 15, 2007 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyways, I'm heading to work with a smile on my
by Goose on Dec 14, 2007 5:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yeah i'm glad he's gone
by Brick on Dec 14, 2007 6:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yay
1.313 OPS
As stephen colbert says, gut instinct is what's most important. (watch his speech at the white house correspondent's dinner, 2006)
by Brick on Dec 14, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stephen Colbert is an American Hero
by JI on Dec 14, 2007 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AN is going insane over this trade
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 2:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd be sad over losing Haren
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 2:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't feel that way.
by Matthew on Dec 15, 2007 2:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing the percentages
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 2:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In 3 years time
by Graham on Dec 15, 2007 7:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I don't know why people are saying
by Goose on Dec 15, 2007 5:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey look, a GM who understands saves are
Byrnes:"Peña may get his chance this season, although general manager Josh Byrnes would not go that far in assessing his bullpen after the trade of Jose Valverde to Houston, the third D-Backs' deal in a Friday flurry that involved 14 players.
Chad Qualls, one of the players obtained for Valverde, and Brandon Lyon also are in the running to replace the flamboyant Valverde, who led the major leagues with a career-high 47 saves while earning an All-Star berth in 2007.
"(Valverde) had a great year for us, and did Peña and Lyon," Byrnes said. "As a threesome, they were a large part of our success.
"It's not easy" trading Valverde. "But saves sometimes are a byproduct of how a game evolves. We haven't determined with Qualls, Lyon and Peña how the roles will fill out. All three have had success in late innings."
by Goose on Dec 15, 2007 5:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Last one and I'll stop Corcoing this thread.
"Diamondbacks GM blows up team, scatters magic beans throughout the majors. Two-headed Haren-Webb rotation monster emerges from ashes"
by Goose on Dec 15, 2007 5:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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