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Community Projection: Raul Ibanez

The sixth in a non-alphabetical and irregularly updated series of review pieces for each of the players we predicted last winter. (All entries are linked in the left-hand sidebar, below the Rotoworld stuff and the interviews.)

LL/USSM Community: 572 AB's, .280/.350/.464 (n=136)
Actual Line: 573 AB's, .291/.351/.480

Closest Projection: darrylzero, .285/.351/.478

If a projection is basically right on, but the player achieves those numbers in an unexpected fashion, is it really correct?

Raul Ibanez and the saga in left field was far and away the most popular storyline of the season. Many people were perfectly content to begin the year with Raul in left and Adam Jones honing his game in AAA, but when Raul struggled out of the gate and AJ proved he was too good for PCL pitching, the tide of public opinion began to turn the other way. Things reached a fever pitch in July, at which point Jones was Biblically laying with the minor leagues while Raul batted .184 with zero power for the month. Clearly, we said, there needs to be a change. Raul, we said, appears finished, and AJ would provide an instant, substantial upgrade. To refuse to make such an obvious move, we said, was to sacrifice a critical game or two in the standings down the stretch.

I guess Raul Ibanez took offense to all this, or something.

Raul through August 5th: .253/.310/.387, 6 homers
Raul after August 5th: .363/.425/.652, 15 homers

Among players with at least 50 plate appearances in each month, Raul had the tenth-best OPS in the league in August and the 40th-best in September (that's out of 291). For a few spurts in there he was carrying this offense, and even managed to be one of the few members of the lineup who actually hit a little bit during that morale-crushing slump. For all the talk about experience and veterans and rookies and chemistry and defense, Raul rendered everything moot by completely flipping out for the final eight weeks. Not that the arguments for AJ were bad ones, mind you - I should know, I made a lot of them - but in this particular case, they didn't matter in the end. Jones didn't have a prayer of matching Raul's production.

With this in mind, if there's one thing the Mariners should've learned from their Raul and Richie experiences this season, it's that, if a player is hurt, it does you no good to let him try and play through it. It came out later in the summer that Raul, for a while, had been dealing with a shoulder issue that first bit him while checking a swing in ST. This shoulder problem caused him discomfort and forced him to alter his mechanics, thus sapping him of a lot of his power and making him pretty useless. The organization was aware of this. He also then ran into a hamstring deal that further delayed his return to being a productive hitter. How much these complications actually hindered him, we'll never be sure, but if the Mariners are quick to explain away Raul's struggles by pointing to his injuries, then they should've also been quick to put him on the DL and let him heal up so he could get back to 100%. Letting a player work through an injury, let alone praising him for his determination in doing so, is one of the stupidest parts of the game. It. Doesn't. Help. Anyone.

Anyway, the tremendous push down the stretch helped Raul put up a set of final numbers that looks remarkably similar to the ones that he's been posting for the better part of the past decade. He may have taken an unorthodox path to his .831 OPS, but he got there, once again showing us where to shove our warnings concerning his age. I can keep reminding you that Raul is 35 and not getting any younger, but after what he just did, I don't really have any more reason to tell you that he's about to drop off the map than I did in 2004, or in 2005, or in 2006, or in 2007. It's weird; when he finally does succumb, I don't think any of us will be particularly surprised, but it'll still be unexpected, if that makes any sense. Such is the burden of following players reluctant to acknowledge their birth dates.

For all the talk about Ibanez's resurgent offense, though, he did start to show his age in another area. Defense. Yeah. I feel like I don't even need to write this part of the post since we've been complaining about it for months, but holy crap is Raul Ibanez ever bad in left field. His THT zone rating ranked third-worst in baseball, even coming in behind Adam flipping Dunn, and UZR agreed, putting his -30 runs (-30 runs!) ahead of only Manny Ramirez's -33 and Pat Burrell's -34. This isn't one of those things where the numbers differ from visual observation, either - any idiot who watched a Mariner game last summer could tell that way more balls were dropping in left field than usual. Watching Raul Ibanez play the field is so painfully unfunny that it's almost funny, and how Jarrod Washburn hasn't yet chopped him up and fed him to birds remains a mystery to me.

If you can believe it, Raul's defense was arguably bad enough to leave him as little more than a replacement-level left fielder, overall. A replacement-level left fielder will have something resembling replacement-level offense and league-average defense. According to Baseball Prospectus' Runs Above Replacement Player statistic, Raul was about +30 runs at the plate last season. UZR says he was -30 runs in the field. Even if you consider that way too extreme to be real, -20 works as a compromise (seriously, he was really really bad), and then you're talking about Raul being about one win better on the season as a whole than someone like Jason Ellison or Jeremy Reed. If you've ever wondered how bad of a fielder someone has to be to cancel out an .831 OPS, 2007 Raul Ibanez is your answer.

The fact that Raul was injured for the first half or so makes this a little less meaningful in a retrospective sense, and it doesn't do us that much good to bitch about it considering Raul started hitting like a crazy person soon after the calls for AJ really began in earnest, but this can't be ignored going forward. Even if Raul stays consistently productive at the plate, that doesn't mean he isn't slipping in the field, and he's clearly taken a gigantic step back from where he was a few years ago. At this point, Raul Ibanez is a left fielder in name only. The only offseason Mariner plans worth pursuing are those that involve moving Raul somewhere less conspicuous.

It's not that I don't think Raul can contribute in 2008. It's not that at all. It's just that he stands a much, much greater chance of being an asset at first base or DH, where he isn't actively crippling a pitching staff that needs all the help it can get. As a left-handed DH who sits a lot of the time when there's a southpaw on the mound, Raul Ibanez can be a big help. As a spasming corpse in left field, he can't, or at least not anywhere close to the same extent.

One problem we have is that the Seattle Mariners, in their current incarnation, don't have a clue when it comes to assessing the significance of individual glovework. They'd probably be quite content to lose Guillen, shift AJ into right, and leave the rest of the unit as it is. However, since early November should be a time for warm fuzzies, I'm going to go ahead and try to give them the benefit of the doubt here and assume that even they understand how bad Raul's defense really is. And hey, Geoff Jenkins is a veteran local free agent who provides left-handed sock. Take the bait guys. Please. If ever there were a good time to live up to your stereotype, this is it.

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We felt your pain Raul
Boy did we feel it.  And we felt it oh so much more because you were out their suffering it up in Safeco instead of on a rehab stint in Tacoma--which is where any half-normal organization would have had you working through your injuries.

by zugzwang on Nov 8, 2007 9:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So, how well does Jenkins
use the glove?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 8, 2007 9:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

His RZR was 15th
overall and 8th in the NL last year. His UZR was 5.
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Nov 8, 2007 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He'd be a good DH.
I still can't comprehend how the Mariners can stick the slowest man on the team in a CF sized area and still expect to win games. At this point why not put Turbo in center?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 8, 2007 9:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Personally...
I don't entirely believe the whole "injury" thing.  Right, he was hurt but they continued to play him and showed no signs of resting him.  I know that when my car starts having problems I push it just as hard as normal, and only care months later...and when I have a poor image at work I develop it as normal and only fix it in Photoshop after the client complains.

Finally living up to stathead predictions isn't an injury...

by Gromky on Nov 8, 2007 11:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I believe it
If it was fake, they would have said it was tendonitis
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 12:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't really complain about that final line
but his monthlies look ominously like Sexson's from a year ago.

I buy the injury thing, I do. It makes perfect sense - his shoulder felt bad, so he had to alter his swing and couldn't hit for power, then he went all hulk hogan for a short stretch, then his hammy got hurt and he couldn't finish his swing...

It makes perfect sense, yeah. And maybe that means we can expect a 300/360/500 or more from him next year, when he's presumably healthy and maybe not running as much in the field. But it fits the Sexson pattern well too. And that scares me. In any case, as long as he doesn't deck his wife i think we're stuck with him for the duration of the season, so I'm rooting for the guy to go all Torii Hunter on us.

there should be three levels of terror alert: Jesus Christ, Goddammit, and fuck me! -LB

by Mere Tantalisers on Nov 9, 2007 6:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'll take the more realistic approach.
I hope he decks his wife.
Refuse to progress!!

by Double06 on Nov 9, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And another thing!
93% of Raul's PA's were in the #3 or 4 spot in the lineup.  With almost a 250 point drop in his OPS in 2007 when batting against lefties, will somebody please tell us why ol' Johnny finds it necessary to xerox the same batting order for every damn game!?!?

by Safeco Hobo on Nov 9, 2007 7:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I used to be a Raul fan, but ...
I found his refusal to go on the DL one of the most selfish things I have seen in years.  It looked like he was afraid to admit he needed time off because he did not want to get Wally Pipped by AJ.  There was a stretch of games where he was unable to do anything more than drop a looping single over the infield.  Obviously he can hit when healthy, but he lost us games at the plate and in the field this year.

by Sec 108 on Nov 9, 2007 7:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think
ballplayers are in a tough spot when it comes to injuries.  If they opt to sit out, they get criticized for not playing through it and have their toughness questioned.  If they try to play through it, they are called selfish for not going on the DL.  This is where a strong organization needs to step in and take the decision out of the hands of the player.

by Man From Nantucket on Nov 9, 2007 8:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Injured an all
Injured, spasming corpse and all, he posted better number than Beltré, yet he gets heavily criticised, while Beltré gets praised!  Clearly Beltré helped a lot with his glove and Ibañez hurt, but at worst it gets washed out.

IMHO, Ibañez was more valuable than Beltré during 2007, but that's just my opinion.

Where all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

by Pirata Morado on Nov 9, 2007 10:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

An opinion can't really be wrong.
You might disagree (I do), but he is entitled to his opinion.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
Certain opinions are more valuable than others, but there are definitely opinions that are completely misguided, if not utterly incorrect.  

My opinion that Scott Spiezio's clubhouse leadership would help the M's tremendously in 2004, and that he was the biggest M's acquisition that offseason was terribly, utterly wrong.  

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Nov 9, 2007 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's probably semantics really.
I just don't think an opinion can be wrong. In my opinion, I'm the smartest, most talented, best looking guy on the face of the planet, but I doubt anyone elses opinion matches mine. That still doesn't make my opinion wrong.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
by definition, an opinion cannot be wrong.  Misguided, sure, but wrong?  No.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was my point, although it doesn't
even really matter. I guess I was just in the mood to debate something.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No you weren't
oh wait, never mind.  I'm just in an argumentative mood.  
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah?!?
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Them's fightin...uh...
nuts? boobs?  Something.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Look closer,
it's actually a butt priate.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
IMHO, Ibañez was more valuable than Beltré during 2007, but that's just my opinion.

At what point during the ENTIRE first 2/3 of the season was Ibanez more valuable than Beltre? Raul caught fire late, sure, and hauled his numbers to a point where they aren't too embarrassing, but up until then he was called "spasming corpse" for a reason.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right spirit, wrong pinata
pick on a different guy... like Guillen.  If you said Jose Guillen, I would totally agree with you.

by johnbai on Nov 9, 2007 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I may too
Or at least I would have been okay with the statement.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The only correct part of this
is your excellent use of accents.

by Slozbury Stouvre on Nov 9, 2007 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He types like Jon Miller speaks
at least in MLB 2K
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Nov 10, 2007 11:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Ibanez becomes DH or 1B
I will be thrilled, and incredibly happy to see him back.  Anyone who argues he is a bad hitter is letting their opinions of his fielding influence their judgment. While he MAY drop off, I suppose, he also may not.  And if he doesn't then he is a very good hitter, and at DH he is certain to help the team. It doesn't matter to me that he can't hit lefties, his overall offensive production is something to be pleased with.

However, if he ends up in the field again, then he moves from being a valuable player to a complete waste of space.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 11:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Many people get angry...
When I say that Ibañez was more valuable than Beltré.

Just look at this, and pick one:

.291 / .351 / .480 / .831 vs.
.276 / .319 / .482 / .801

That's 30 points higher in OPS, and people still get angry!

Where all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

by Pirata Morado on Nov 9, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem for me is...
...you say this:

IMHO, Ibañez was more valuable than Beltré during 2007, but that's just my opinion.

During a substantial portion of 2007, Ibanez was more valuable than, say, a dead cat, but certainly not more valuable than Beltre.  Had you said "Ibanez was more valuable than Beltre in August and September" I don't think you'd find such violent opposition.

Look at it this way.  At the beginning of the season, had someone told you that the M's would finish the year at 88-74 and been in the pennant race for a while, you would have been pretty excited; as it was, though, that record feels incredibly disappointing, because of how the team got there.

Ibanez is the same - his end-of-year numbers look fine, but the brutal way in which he got there means that he was far, far away from being as valuable as Beltre over the entire season.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But Ibanez's defense was terrible
TERRIBLE. And Beltre's was amazing - more than making up for the OPS numbers.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Run Difference
30 points of OPS, given their playing time, is about a 9 run difference offensively.  

The difference between Beltre's defense and Ibanez's defense is on the order of 30 to 40 runs.  

Beltre is good, Ibanez is not.  

by davidcameron on Nov 9, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are ignoring
the fact that even when Ibañez was hitting so bad, he was getting his share or RBI, he has been very clutch at least the last 2 years, as for Beltré.....
Where all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

by Pirata Morado on Nov 9, 2007 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BURN THE TREE!!!!
man, if that guy was from southern california, wouldn't that be ironic?

by Matthew on Nov 9, 2007 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My grandma could get RBI's hitting in the
3 or 4 hole everyday. RBI's is a horrible way to judge a players talent and contribution to the team.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No I'm not
I'm ignoring your remarkably bad analysis.  

by davidcameron on Nov 9, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pfffffft.
I think you owe me some gin, I just sprayed a shot of it all over my laptop.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

stupid time zones
or stupid boss-not-allowing-booze-at-my-job.  Either way you're drinking right now and I'm envious.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Depending on where he is,
he is starting early. I'm still 3+ hours away from my first drink of the day.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's in England
8 hrs from the west coast.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're kidding, right?
Three hours is a good warm-up.  Unless you're in a pub, which means you have 30 more minutes to drink before it's closing time.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's been a bottle and a half of wine
Plus quite a lot of gin. I'm also half Chinese, which is a killer...

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What does being half Chinese
have to do with wine and gin?
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
Inherited it from my mother. My brother, on the other hand, got my dad's. And Dad's Irish >:(

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's frustrating
but you probably got the better cooking gene.  My whole family's Irish - ever tasted Irish cooking?  Do you like boiled (insert food here)?  mmmm, boiled (insert food here).
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Spot on.
Dad only ever cooks to annoy me.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 2:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The amazing thing to me
is that one of my cousins is the founder, head chef,  and driving force behind this place, one of the most celebrated restaurants in Ireland.  She grew up, like the rest of her family, on a Kerry farm eating boiled (insert food here) and she grew up to do that.  Unbelievable.

Me, on the other hand, I can make a grilled cheese sandwich, and nachos, and maybe canned soup.  Genes are stupid.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Half Irish here too. The food sucks.
So if Chinese can't process booze well, why do most of their restaurants serve the strongest drinks on the planet?
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't ask me
But we turn red and get alcohol poisoning reeeeeeally quick.

Gin is the only thing I can consume in bulk without getting ill.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn.
Slow down on the wine man!
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cambridge formal drinking rules
Are really really harsh. I gave as good as I got, even if I had to leave and come back halfway though my main course.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
My ex had it bad. She would turn red and warm like 3 degrees on half a beer.

But her body being 3 degrees warmer had its advantages...

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chinese people/women
Don't handle alcohol well.  
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That I get, what I'm confused about
is the advantage of her being 3 degrees warmer.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Sex is Awesome.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not a fever
She feels fine, she's not sick at all.  Her body just warms up. Her whole body, too. Even her legs feel warmer.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Although I didn't realize you could read it like
that, until just now. But yeah, that would sound wrong huh?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're not sweating, you're doing it wrong
I guess I just don't see where her body temp being up makes it any better.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't?
You don't see how her whole body being warm to the touch would make sex even better? I don't know how to explain it to you.... Um...

Well, have you seen how they make personal lubricants that "warm on contact?" Assume that's because people enjoy the sex more.  Otherwise, I don't know how to explain why.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is uncomfortable.
But from my experience, I've never needed anything to warm her up other than what nature gave me.

Warm is better than sex in a freezer, yes. But I just don't see the big deal.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you take the same warmth
And you add to it, it feels better.  

Warm is better than sex in a freezer, yes.

Okay, so warmer than that could be even better, yeah?

Seriously, I don't really know how to explain it, so you may as well give up trying to understand it.  

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If some is good
then more is great.

 - Eddie Spaghetti, The Supersuckers.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know enough not to scratch my nuts
after putting Icy Hot on my hamstrings unless I wash my hands thouroghly first.

Other than that, I guess I see your point, it's just that "heat" is not the first sensation I'm after.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
Amen to that.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're excused then.
If I were in England, I'd be drinking right now as well!
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Beltre = 3B, Ibanez = LF (sort of). Their offensive baselines are different.

But, yeah, mostly the whole defense thing.

by Jeff on Nov 9, 2007 11:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm.
Park factors and handedness are very important things you're ignoring...
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Nov 9, 2007 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But well, that's my opinion
and I'm entitled to it.  I don't care if nobody shares it.
Where all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

by Pirata Morado on Nov 9, 2007 11:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wish there were more people like you
and I with they were GMs, and then we could trade Raul for some serious talent.

by zugzwang on Nov 9, 2007 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beltre was the better hitter anyway
regardless of defense.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 9, 2007 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's another opinion
Alan Parsons still sucks.

by G_ on Nov 9, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyway....
Here's some interesting commentary, accompanied by a photograph from back in May.  Clearly, small-sample-size alert, but still...
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Nov 9, 2007 12:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

My opinion
Raul and the M's would be better off if he found something else to do with his time. He had no business in the field or the three hole. I think it will only go down from here.

by InSpokane on Nov 9, 2007 2:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's hilarious how off topic this place gets.
We go from discussing Raul Ibanez to how much better sex feels when it's warmer.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Nov 9, 2007 3:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's why I love this place
conversations are all over the map, but pretty much always civil, smart, and usually funny as hell.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

unicorns do provide more bang for the buck than
meatloaf though. But damn do they let you know the whole time.

by Matthew on Nov 9, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Meatloaf is a replacement level meal
I don't get your obsession with it, man. It's like Bretticus and Hayden Penn.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 4:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But it's the best loaf
Turkey loaf?  ugh.
Spam loaf?  nope.
Pimiento loaf?  Not really food.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You were supposed to be Brett
Completing the circle by suggest we trade Raul for Penn, dammit.

by Graham on Nov 9, 2007 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not that meta
that requires a longer term memory than I'm capable of at 4pm on Friday.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bastard
but not really, as my weekend starts pretty much now.  
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 9, 2007 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't knock my boy Hayden!! >:(
No but seriously.  He's awesome, and apparently the O's are starting to sour on him....
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Nov 10, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Loaf of bread?
Even the thought of turkey loaf almost made me hurl.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bretticus does a good job
getting LL football together.  Luckily John Olerud won't be there, because he sucks.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're not kidding.
I'm curious what would happen to this thread if I didn't make another front page post for three or four days.

by Jeff on Nov 9, 2007 4:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Genital warts
are actually cased by a strain of HPV, the same virus that causes cancer in women.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 4:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In other words, we'd all talk about nothing
And Corco would go on a crazy murderous rampage and start killing prostitutes via the roads in Idaho.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it went astray about the time
the butt pirate showed up.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I Ironically, his patch is on one side
But his eye is on the other.  
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's always such a delicate balance.
I don't even know why we give subjects and titles to posts anymore, considering the speed with which the ensuing threads lose their relevance.

by Jeff on Nov 9, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's half the fun though.
Waiting to see what tangent the thread willl fly off on.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 9, 2007 4:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

All I'll say is
thank God for nested threads.

by Jeff on Nov 9, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What's worse though
long threads with really weird tangent subplots or, for instance, a new diary for every topic that comes up?

Do you want to see a diary poll about whether sex is better if one partner has a fever?

You know, buried in this heap of interaction is a killer dissertation on the benefits and pitfalls of web-based communication as a social gathering place.

by Matthew on Nov 9, 2007 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take that one on.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 5:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And it's not a fever.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 9, 2007 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My theory is that after a season of bitching
not one of us wants to talk about Raul Ibanez anymore.

by Matthew on Nov 9, 2007 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm talking 'bout Raul
I don't know, I still get a kick out of Raul. And, Jeff, I appreciate you noting how he has defied prediction of a drop off each of these past 4 seasons. The talk of "his bat is finally slowing down, etc...." has been almost an annual rite. If anything, he has been the portrait of consistency.
He likes playing the field, and you have to give him credit for playing hard and giving it his all. I believe that he will do better at the plate when he is challenged in the field. Shifting him to 1st just seems the right move for so many reasons.

by theclaw on Nov 9, 2007 11:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your final statement
But I respect players who admit when they have flaws.  If McLaren MADE him play left field, and he said "I will do it because my manager wants me to" then I'd respect him for that.  But he should know he's terrible in the field, and say that he'd like to move someday to help the team.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 10, 2007 12:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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