Matt Garza available for trade

by weebs on Nov 8, 2007 8:53 AM PST

via Rotoworld:

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, "there are strong indications the Twins would be willing to move Matt Garza for a top young hitter."

The Twins previously passed on dealing Garza for the likes of Alfonso Soriano, but new general manager Bill Smith has made it clear that he's hunting for impact bats after the team struggled to score runs in 2007. Garza projects as a potential No. 2 starter, has yet to turn 24 years old and has a 4.47 ERA in 133 career innings, so he's likely to be a popular trade target.

Wlad and/or Clement for Garza? What do you guys think about the possibility of this, and is that enough to get him?

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Clement

is less valuable to the Twins than he is to other teams

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by ConorGlassey on Nov 8, 2007 9:23 AM PST reply actions

Well

Do you really think scouts project Clement to be a major league catcher anyways? I figure he'll end up at 1st or DH within 5 years.

by weebs on Nov 8, 2007 9:29 AM PST up reply actions

Mauer

is one sore knee away from splitting his time between catcher and DH (or maybe 3B).

With all of the recent "young stud pitcher might be available" articles, I think GMs are simply floating names to gauge their players' worth with no real intent to trade them.

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions

Take a bigger perpsective

Consider that there are 28 other teams, almost all of whom are looking for starting pitching and don't see much of interest in the FA market. Given the scarcity of starting pitching, don't you think at least one of them would easily beat that offer?

My point is that when thinking about trade situations, don't just consider whether what the Mariners (or any other team for that matter) offers is "good enough". Think about whether another team is likely to come up with something better.

In this case, don't you think another team would offer comparable talent that is already proven at the MLB level?

+++++++++

Which brings up a related issue. Most fans of teams consistently overestimate the value of their favorite team's prospects. Wlad and Clement are not worth as much as many fans think they are; they are still prospects, not proven MLB players.

Nor have Wlad and Clement even proven they are MLB ready. Both of them have checkered careers to this point, and there is ample reason to discount their 2007 campaigns as possible anomalies. It's not as if both players have shown the type of steady and continuing progress as they've advanced that makes an easy projection forward to MLB.

by Steve Nelson on Nov 8, 2007 9:26 AM PST reply actions

Great point

I'd at least like to see the organization look into it. Maybe they want a proven slugger...Richie... haha.

by weebs on Nov 8, 2007 9:31 AM PST up reply actions

True

but, lets not forget that definition of "best" is subjective and GMs routinely make trades that leave us asking "couldn't he have gotten more?".

I think the real point is that trade speculation of any kind is a completely futile effort. You cannot be objective about it. It basically comes down to the whims of a small circle of people at the time. It's like trying to predict what I'll have for dinner next Tuesday.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 10:18 AM PST up reply actions

Meatloaf.

I'm never blocking a fire exit.

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions

There's pretty much no chance that's happening

you have to realize, what can meatloaf offer me? There's many other foods out there with better value to offer. Be realistic here!

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions

Meatloaf is a great value

Sure, steaks and sea scallops are top of the line, but you are going to overpay terribly for them. Meatloaf fits any budget and comes with no long term commitment, and an option for a sandwich the next day.

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions

Is that a team option, or a loaf option?

I'm never blocking a fire exit.

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 11:08 AM PST up reply actions

team option

with a vesting option conditional on bread availability

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions

Ketchup to be named later?

I'm never blocking a fire exit.

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions

I assumed ketchup was part of the package

deal!!

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions

No trade clause, or no ketchup.

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions

Meatloaf is the Joel Pineiro

of dinner possibilities for next thursday.

Sure, it's cheaper than Applebees (consistent, boring: Carlos Silva), and it's less of a risk than sushi (AJ Burnett). But put the money aside for a moment: what are you really buying?

I was going to say meatloaf is the Kyle Lohse of dinner possibilities, but Kyle Lohse has priced himself out of meatloaf analogies.

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 1:26 PM PST up reply actions

You could go to Applebees,

and order the meatloaf. Then what would you have?

It's an interesting analogy though, I wonder what other pitchers you could fit in there?

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 1:29 PM PST up reply actions

Intestinal cramps?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 1:30 PM PST up reply actions

I don't know if it's true for Applebees,

but Jack in the Box just did that for me.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions

Like a Billy Beane minor league free agent,

meatloaf is underrated. Too many scouts and front office types focus on the physical attributes that meatloaf lacks, rather than the excellent performance it can produce in the right environment (say, the Icon Grill).

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions

It's always helpful

to have meatloaf around, stashed in the fridge, for depth. The problem is when you start to rely on meatloaf.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions

Agree to disagree

To me, it's not the billy beane org depth guy who gets you 95% of the production for a fraction of the cost. It's simply a meal that can't get outs.

Good-but-not-great in college, but at some point, the results have to be there. Cost is low, true, but that's because there simply isn't any production.

I don't even want it stashed for depth, not when you can go to the Japanese leagues and get Ramen for a fraction of the cost. Not when you can get the minor league free agents of the meat counter and at least have a SHOT at a good meal. Is there more risk that way? Sure, but to me meatloaf isn't a fallback, it's not a contingency plan - it's a white flag.

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions

Hear Hear!

Tator Tot Casserole = WAAAAY better than meatloaf. It's the 5-tool meal.

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Nov 8, 2007 3:14 PM PST up reply actions

Oh, Pat Gillick, you are still livin' in the past

Meatloaf does not have to be what it was in the 1960s and 1970s. There have been incredible advances over the years ans around the globe. If you just apply the same creativity and determination that the Germans have to the entire canon of ground meats, you can get 95% of the production at a fraction of the cost of prime rib.

And really, isn't Ramen just an empty batting average?

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 3:19 PM PST up reply actions

in between

it can never get you 95% of anything, but it can get you 75% and it's great in a pinch.

I wouldn't keep meatloaf stashed in my fridge certainly, but I would keep it in my friends' fridge across the hall where I keep the rest of my filler foods and marinating meats that aren't ready yet for grilling.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions

Creativity and determination aren't free

I've never had today's highly advanced meat loaves, and I don't really care to, but my point is that by admixing high cost ingredients (and really, isn't that a half-decent proxy for 'creativity'), you're losing the ONLY advantage of the meatloaf. You've gone from a crappy back-end starter to a crappy back end starter...who's lefthanded. Woohoo!

And if meatloaf's advanced since 1980, so has ramen.
I'm not going to dispute that its value is tied up in empty batting average. That's tough, but fair. But give me a basically free empty average any day. It's the expensive empty averages that kill you, like the souffle that is Jose Vidro.

I think the other awesome, underpriced option is to go the Sean Green route and get something that wouldn't be good on its own, but see if your pitching instructors can't in essence deep fry it into palatability. Green was the ultimate in poorly textured vegetable matter in his Rockies days, but get him into the Fry Daddy of the M's minor league system, you've got yourself a league average (or better) samosa, all for basically nothing.

some people might say that we've annihilated this joke/metaphor, but I, obviously, disagree.

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions

No, but they can be almost free

Just bring in Scott Hatteburg and have him spend the winter working on finding the right balance between the varieties of ground meat, herbs, and spices.

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions

another option

is to go with the cheaper meatloaf, and then splurge a bit on really great BBQ sauce to douse it with. Yeah, you pay more for great BBQ, but it's way less overvalued than top of the line meat. In the end, you save money and you get edible food.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 3:58 PM PST up reply actions

So, uh, which ballplayer

= really good bbq sauce?

I think you were just straight-up revealing some truths about low cost food options, and I was thrown because there was no baseball in your suggestion.

Is Leo Mazzone the bbq sauce? Or is Adam Everett the bbq sauce?

Who the FUCK is this good bbq sauce, matthew?

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 4:27 PM PST up reply actions

tsk tsk

more training you still need.

great BBQ sauce is defense to the meatloaf's bland pitching repertoire.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 4:35 PM PST up reply actions

Your statement could've indicated

great coaching, like Mazzone who coached the meatloaf of Jaret Wright into a huge FA contract, or great defense, such as Cameron turning the meatloaf of Ryan Franklin into a solid innings eater.

Hell, it could even be a stadium, spacious and wide as Texas itself, turning the rotting corpse of Hideo 'Meatloaf' Nomo into a serviceable starter in 2000.

I demand specificity.

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 4:42 PM PST up reply actions

ha

how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get how thin can this get

by weebs on Nov 8, 2007 5:40 PM PST up reply actions

Must we do this every week?

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 8, 2007 5:41 PM PST up reply actions

I have faith that Matthew will block it

And last time it was funny, because it was me. Now it is not funny because it is not.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Nov 8, 2007 6:56 PM PST up reply actions

I

1
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.
!

"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Nov 8, 2007 8:26 PM PST up reply actions

So

How about that Matt Garza?

What do I look like, a guy who's not lazy?

by Rollo Tomasi on Nov 8, 2007 8:37 PM PST up reply actions

This is why we shouldnt have deleated the research

on the Corco Phenomenon

by Robert on Nov 8, 2007 8:47 PM PST up reply actions

He's also a fantastic singer

Mock if you will, but "Bat Out Of Hell" is one of the most perfectly formed slices of overwrought musical cheese you'll ever want to hear.

Plus, it's got Phil Rizzuto. What else could you want?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions

In the late 1990s

there was a televised charity concert where Pavarotti sang with different rock stars. Pavarotti's voice, of course, overpowered and embarrassed all of them except one, Meatloaf.

by G_ on Nov 8, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions

that's damned impressive.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 11:32 AM PST up reply actions

Hey

What are the chances of having filet mignon? I think that'd be a great meal and it'd fit your diet perfectly. I'm pretty sure you can flip that for $12.

by Gomez on Nov 8, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions

You have to be wary about filets

that only cost $12. There's usually a reason why they're that cheap and the demand isn't skyhigh. I bet that filet is about to just fall apart.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions

I don't particularly enjoy

durable filets. I'd rather have one that's injury-prone from a fan standpoint. It's a lot more fun to watch

Washington Highways

by Corco on Nov 8, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions

Filets

you gotta make sure they pass their physical. The thing is with well aged, proven beef is its often starting to rot a bit much, and while you pay for prime steak, you end up with food poisoning that wreaks havoc on your two-hole.

there should be three levels of terror alert: Jesus Christ, Goddammit, and fuck me! -LB

by Bearskin Rugburn on Nov 8, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions

You have to watch out for cows

that have been taking steroids and growth hormone.

by chrisisasavage on Nov 8, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions

Also

if you have someone prepare it at a restaurant, a fillet should run about $25-$30 or so.

by chrisisasavage on Nov 8, 2007 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

Restaurants suck

They don't give any play to fresh rookie fillets. They only cook the veteran fillets that have been through the meals.

by Gomez on Nov 8, 2007 4:07 PM PST up reply actions

Pot Roast!

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Nov 8, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions

I prefer my pots black

like my men.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 11:19 AM PST up reply actions

I like my women like I like my coffee

a) ground up and in the freezer
b) weak and sweet

I can never decide which of those two I like better

there should be three levels of terror alert: Jesus Christ, Goddammit, and fuck me! -LB

by Bearskin Rugburn on Nov 8, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions

Wow.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 1:23 PM PST up reply actions

Let me guess.

You're single.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 1:23 PM PST up reply actions

married with children

well, child.

there should be three levels of terror alert: Jesus Christ, Goddammit, and fuck me! -LB

by Bearskin Rugburn on Nov 8, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions

I'm guessing your wife doesn't read this blog.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions

She is in the freezer

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Nov 8, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions

Well played.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Nov 8, 2007 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

c) strong but mellow when you add cream

man I feel dirty just writing that but it had to be posted.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 1:41 PM PST up reply actions

d) five times a day

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Nov 8, 2007 1:43 PM PST up reply actions

Since they have

Mauer who is a left handed catcher i highly doubt they would want Clement unless he would be a full time DH. Wlad would be interesting. Since they are going to lose Torri and they have no real LF. Wlad might work out. And as much as I like Wlad he should be the biggest trade bait we have. A straight up trade, Wlad for Garza, will not work though, pitching has become way to valuable.

Funk for '08!

by shunter160 on Nov 8, 2007 9:32 AM PST reply actions

Clement or Wlad

doesn't seem like enough to get Garza. Cockiness and bad reputation aside, the kid's got some pretty sick stuff. I think the Twins are pretty fed up with him, but I still think it would take Adam Jones to get this deal done.

As someone above mentioned, you know there are ballclubs that will put together better packages than the M's can.

by Teej on Nov 8, 2007 10:13 AM PST reply actions

The idea

of having the shit-eatingest grin in MLB under team control is intriguing.

by Gomez on Nov 8, 2007 10:30 AM PST reply actions

I can't find a picture of it

but Washburn had a pretty awful one during his last year with the Angels.

by Katal LM on Nov 8, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions

I remember that pic

Nothing says 'asshole' quite like the '05 Washburn gameday pic.

by Gomez on Nov 8, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions

We'd never do it, but

I would be cool with offering Jones in exchange for Garza.

The Twins need a new center fielder, and they need more offensive production from their OF. Plus he's cheap and will be under team control for six years.

There are few young position players who by themselves would be more valuable to the Twins. Another team might be able to put together a better package, but Jones for Garza would have to be alluring.

I'd rather have Wlad + Garza than Jones + say, an expensive Kyle Lohse.

by Katal LM on Nov 8, 2007 10:47 AM PST reply actions

Yeah I was gonna say

this is where somebody needs to bring up the fact Wlad isn't that great and you are gonna have to give them at least Jones.

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 8, 2007 12:17 PM PST up reply actions

Side-splitting

The meatloaf posts were hilarious.

Anyone else a fan of liver and onions?
I like the dish, but in baseball terms liver is more like Ibanez, a gritty veteran who can filter through the ups and down of the season. He's been through wars, and he's still plugging along.
And onions are a flavor all their own, not a spice that enhances the liver, rather compliments it. Kinda like, well, ...
I dunno, because now all I can think of is your poor livers. With all the beer talk/photos on this site, I am thinking your livers have gone through wars. And that all your livers look like Ibanez's bald pate. And thats weird.

by KC @ Lookout Landing on Nov 8, 2007 3:15 PM PST reply actions

Liver and onions

is the single most vile meal ever. And I've eaten haggis.

My dad used to eat liver and onions once a week, even until the year he died - he considered it a treat. He grew up during the Depression as the youngest of 7 kids, and his family didn't have any money, so liver was a treat back then as it was often the only meat they could get.

To this day, the smell of cooking liver makes me want to vomit.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 3:19 PM PST up reply actions

Tripe is worse

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 8, 2007 7:49 PM PST up reply actions

Disagree

Tripe on its own is bad. Tripe in pho, surprisingly, not horrid.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 9:23 PM PST up reply actions

You're correct,

my liver has been through the wars. In fact, it was in battle last night, and it will put it's life on the line for me again tonight!

Not that it's a regular occurence, but last night I was out with my friends, and tonight I'm going to a concert.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions

pheh

Last night is nothing. Real men put their liver to the test every morning.

by chrisisasavage on Nov 8, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions

I'm working up to it.

I have long career as an alcoholic ahead of me, I don't want to be a one or two decade wonder like my father before me.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions

it's a marathon not a sprint.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions

I've found, as I get older

that I can still drink as much as I could when I was in my early 20's. I cannot, however, recover nearly as fast as I could in those halcyon days. The next morning is now no longer for rallying, but for lying on the couch and hoping for the sweet release of death.

Not that that stops me, mind you. I just have to pick my spots better.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions

I can still rally if necessary,

but when I finally crash, it's pretty ugly.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions

Used to be

I'd go out drinking after work, be at the bar by 5, go to a show, see a few bands and get home about 1AM, drinking pretty steadily all the while, then I could get up and do the same thing again the next night no problem.

These days, I go to the bar at 5, I stay till 11.30 or so, and usually the entire next day is spent on the couch battling, at various times, headaches, nausea, and odd twitches from drunk-sleep before going to bed at about 8pm and sleeping for 12 hours.

I love being older, I love getting older, but some of the mechanics of getting older really piss me off.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions

I can go about three days in a row

if I take it easy on the shots, but then I need a full day planted on the couch to recover (and about 12 hours of sleep like you said).

Now I usually try to take a day off in between trips to the bar, but sometimes that doesn't happen because of my sports leagues or special events like Seahawks games, concerts and other stuff.

Getting older is great in many ways, but I do wish I was as indestructible as was when I was in my early twenties.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions

I won't do shots

I'm legendary among my friends for always being the guy that turns down shots. In my circle of friends, shots don't usually start until after 5-6 rounds of beers, and by that point if I take a shot I'm going to black out, which is no good because that then leads to more shots and all sorts of badness.

At my bachelor party, that rule was suspended, and the number of people that kept buying me shots was ridiculous - they were all seizing their one opportunity, and good for them. It ain't happening again any time soon.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 4:05 PM PST up reply actions

My friends and I bet shots on everything.

Video golf, softball, football games, you name it. So I usually end up drinking my fair share if I'm out and about.

The secret is to remember that the shots are bound to catch up to you, so you have to pcae yourself. But I completely understand that can be difficult after many beers. I almost made that mistake last night before a friend of mine said "slow down champ!" when I suggested another round.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:08 PM PST up reply actions

agree

I also try to avoid shots because besides tasting nasty, I have the slowest metabolism on record. Therefore, whenever I would drink shots, they wouldn't hit me right away, so I'd keep drinking more. 30 minutes later, when the alcohol finally started to kick in, I was 10 shots in the hole^ and would get the sudden realization that I had about an hour of the night left to enjoy before I stopped remembering anything.

I wish I had friends who told me to slow down. They all thought it was funny.

^You know the scene in Super Troopers where he downs 4 whiskey shots in a row? That is literally how I would start my night back when I was a novice. Except I would do another 4 about 15 minutes later. I'm smarter now. Which is ironic when you think about alcohol and brain cells.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 4:33 PM PST up reply actions

My rule is usually

1 shot for every two beers, no more (I generally don't chug my beer, so it's a decent pace). Occasionally I violate that rule, but I try to stick pretty close to it.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions

I just don't drink shots

or really any liquor anymore. Occasionally a vodka or run mixed drink and even less frequently, a bourbon, but I've found my groove with wine and beer (always the wine first).

To me, shots always signified the desire to just get plastered ASAP. Leaving college and its peak and valley stress behind, I don't get that urge much anymore.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 4:43 PM PST up reply actions

I suppose that's part of it,

But I enjoy the taste of the shots, so it's not just about getting drunk.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:47 PM PST up reply actions

weirdo

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions

Yes.

But not because of the shots. It's not like I'm pounding shots of well whiskey or something.

I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:57 PM PST up reply actions

this is where steroids come in handy

they really shake off the fatigue of the daily drinking grind

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions

Wouldnt greenies be more benefitial there?

by chrisisasavage on Nov 8, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions

tell me about it

I've had weekends recently that look like:

Friday 5pm: commence weekend with celebratory drink(ing).
Saturday 2am: stop drinking, pass out (somewhere)
Saturday 8am: wake up
Saturday 830am: finally figure out where I am
Saturday 9am: arrive at G&D for EPL matches that day
Saturday 915am: resume drinking
Saturday 4pm: matches done, stumble out of bar
Saturday 4-8pm: unsure of what happens
Saturday 8pm: dinner + drinks
Sunday 2am: stop drinking, pass out (somewhere)
Sunday 9am: wake up
Sunday 930am: arrive at bar for NFL games or back to G&D for good soccer matches.
Sunday 945am: resume drinking

it's rivaled some of my better stretches in college.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 3:51 PM PST up reply actions

I always love going to the George

for World Cup matches, mostly because you can always tell when it's 6am because people can and do start drinking.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions

George and Dragon

Saturday football.

I can't believe I have never, NEVER thought to go there and watch EPL.

by Gomez on Nov 8, 2007 9:43 PM PST up reply actions

I havent had a drink

for 17 or 18 years. Its easy to quit when you wake up early one morning and you are gagging on the crocheted 'toilet paper cozy' your gramma made.

by KC @ Lookout Landing on Nov 8, 2007 3:55 PM PST reply actions

nobody likes a quitter...

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2007 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

oddly enough

I have a lot more respect for people that have drank and now no longer do than those who have never drank.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions

I agree.

Being serious, my Dad was a RAGING alcoholic for the first 16 years of my life. He quit drinking after a serious car accident where he passed out behind the wheel and rolled his car. He's been sober ever since, and I respect the hell out of him for it. Even to this day if you say the word "Scotch" he'll subconsciously lick his lips, so I know the temptation is still there.

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:05 PM PST up reply actions

Takes guts to stop

all it takes to never start is sanctimony.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 8, 2007 4:09 PM PST up reply actions

Exactly.

He'll still buy me a beer at an M's game and that kind of stuff, but I do have to deal with the occasional lecture when my sister decides she needs to tell him she's worried about how much I party (even though I go out drinking and partying with her and her husband every Friday).

I over value prospects

by Thingray on Nov 8, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions

wow

...are gagging on the crocheted 'toilet paper cozy' your gramma made.

How did you manage that?

by chrisisasavage on Nov 8, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions

Well, its kinda fuzzy,

but I woke on the floor against the wall and behind a chair in a coughing fit, and pulling the crocheted pelican (the TP role fits into the big pelican mouth) out of my throat.

By the way, yarn fuzz stays in your throat for awhile.

by KC @ Lookout Landing on Nov 8, 2007 8:10 PM PST up reply actions

Awesome thread!

by vj on Nov 8, 2007 4:20 PM PST reply actions

damn you all

i was looking forward to new comments on matt garza, and instead i get meatloaf. which i ate for lunch today so am tired of.

by Zack on Nov 8, 2007 5:11 PM PST reply actions

sorry

In my opinion, Wlad by himself wouldn't get Garza, and Clement has little value to Minnesota. So I don't think there's much of a chance of anything unless it's Adam Jones, and I think I'd balk at that pricetag. I'd be up to package Wlad with someone for Garza, but they're a hell of a lot deeper in pitching talent than the M's system. Wlad + Chen +? I don't know.

by marc w on Nov 8, 2007 7:01 PM PST up reply actions

How about

Wlad + Tui + lower-level talent w/ potential for Garza?

If I'm not having a complete brain-fart, I believe the Twins need a third baseman.

I'd really rather keep Clement, though.

by Patrick517 on Nov 10, 2007 7:37 AM PST up reply actions

Gonna cost more

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 10, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions

While this thread obviously isn't about Garza

Anymore, I'd be willing to do Wlad and Clement. I think G is onto something. Mauer could be an everyday player if Clement is the backup catcher and they could both switch from that and DH. Of course this is unlikely though because it's still unorthodox and doesn't solve the Twinkies problem in center like Jones would.

Rotoworld says the Twins are looking into Carlos Gomez.

Refuse to progress!!

by Double06 on Nov 8, 2007 9:40 PM PST reply actions

I am against trading Clement

the guy set the HS record for homeruns, and has continued to show pop in his micro-minor league time. While I do believe that Jones is more valuable to us in the outfield now than Clement could be as a DH or 1B, the possibility of the M's drafting and developing a 35-50 hr guy is more than appealing. I would hate for us to trade a guy before he gets a shot to prove himself.

I am seriously all for keeping Jones and Clement. They are going to be productive players for the next while, it makes no sense to trade them while they are young AND cheap. Blockbuster only, anything that wasn't Bedard or Santana or Kazmir, would be punishable by death.

SO, how do we get better pitching then? Make everyone else (excluding Ichiro, Beltre, Yuni, JJ and Kenji, plus AJ, Clement,and of course Trui)
That still leaves Morrow, Wlad, Green, Sherrill, RRS, Lopez, Ibanez, Tui, Lowe, Chen, Jimerson,or Jesus Guzman.
To trade for 1 pitcher, I am sure there's a package out there. A package of Morrow, Wlad, and Sherrill would be pretty tasty for the right team and for the right guy, heck that's giving away alot.

Sign some rehab project (Colon or Wolf) or NBP star (Kuroda) and go for it. Save the 2 best prospects, they are too valuable to what our org needs right now, and really forever; a power hitting lefty (whether its 1B, DH, or C) and a power hitting, high range outfielder. Yes, we need pitching, but what these guys offer we can't easily replace.
Yes, I would love Jenkins for RF and you can't have enough power hitting lefties, but Jenkins isn't going to play for 7 more years and I don't always want to keep picking off the scrap heap for LHBs. Clement likely isn't fully ready yet, but the upside goes way beyond trading for Garza. Purely my opinion though.

I guess I am just excited for next year and hope for success out of the new guy(s).

Someone get Richie on a REAL offseason workout plan...NOW!!...*signed: M's fan network.

by Montucky on Nov 9, 2007 8:18 AM PST reply actions