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Community Projection: Ichiro

The seventh in a non-alphabetical and irregularly updated series of review pieces for each of the players we predicted last winter. (All entries are linked in the left-hand sidebar, below the Rotoworld stuff and the interviews.)

LL/USSM Community: 684 AB's, .332/.382/.442 (n=130)
Actual Line: 678 AB's, .351/.396/.431

Closest Projection: katal, .343/.392/.427

Not too bad of a group forecast, all things considered, although we gave a bit too much respect to Ichiro's power. But then, who can blame us? The projected ISO (SLG - BA) of .110 was basically right on his career mark before the year. Kudos to katal for being right on, save for a single or three. We also had a guy project a .408/.453/.543 batting line, which, for anyone other than Ichiro, would've seemed fucking crazy.

One of the greatest tragedies of the English language is that, after seven years, we still haven't been able to figure out a way to satisfactorily convey the whole Ichiro experience in words. I'm not even sure one exists. You can talk about his extraordinary bat control, his phenomenal speed, his unparalleled grace in the field, and his perplexingly hilarious interviews until you're blue in the face, but still there's something missing, something that elevates him from annoying slap hitter to justifiably beloved local superstar. And I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what it is.

We know it exists, though, which is why there was such gaiety and merriment in July when it was announced that he'd signed an extension. This was one star player who wasn't going to bolt, invariably ending up in a place that wouldn't appreciate everything he brings to the table. Ichiro is Mariner baseball, at least until Felix gets his shit together. The extension alleviated our fears of having to find a new team identity while guaranteeing to Ichiro that he'll be able to spend all of his best years in a city that loves him for what he is. A-Rod doesn't know what he left behind. Me, I consider five more seasons of Ichiro to be a sort of reward to Mariner fans as a whole for knowing how to treat their franchise icons. We deserve Ichiro, and Ichiro deserves our unconditional support. It's a perfect match.

A (suck) lot (it) of (Dave) people (Samson) expressed surprise and amazement upon hearing of the size of the extension - $90m over five years is a ton of scratch - but where I'm typically one to lambast such enormous contracts, I find Ichiro's deal to be just about perfect. Dave already made the case at some length several months ago that it's a great contract, so that's the place to go for a detailed review. If you don't have that kind of time or patience, though, here's the bottom line: Ichiro's total offensive production compares favorably to that of Grady Sizemore and Carlos Beltran, and he seems to be a plus defensive CF who's incredibly durable and who shows no signs of aging. The average Major League CF hits around .270/.330/.430 with -5 < x < 0 defense. For his career, Ichiro has hit .333/.379/.437 in a pitcher's park with awesome baserunning and 0 < x < +10 defense in center. Even setting aside his general appeal, statistically speaking he's a star player at a premium position. Those people tend to get a lot of money, and I'd much rather have Ichiro at $90m/5yr than Torii Hunter at whatever he's about to get.

I said "seems to be a plus defensive CF," by the way, because Ichiro appears to have broken the advanced metrics. David Pinto's PMR called Ichiro the second-best CF glove in the league, while UZR called him the third-worst. The Hardball Times' RZR split the difference. Make sense of that. I tend to have more faith in defensive statistics than a lot of other people, but when they're literally all over the place, then I have to rely on my eyes, and my scouting side tells me that Ichiro's a life saver out there, especially when he's playing beside a wounded buffalo in left. I honestly don't know what UZR's problem is, because very rarely do I see a ball drop that I think Ichiro should've caught. And I know it's not a bias thing, because I see it happen to Betancourt and Beltre and Jones from time to time, and I love those guys too. I guess there's just something particular about Ichiro's glovework that makes it difficult to measure.

Maybe it's because he felt rejuvenated by the team's status as a contender, but 2007 was a big year for Ichiro, as he hit wire to wire without ever going through the extended slumps that bit him in 2005 and 2006. It felt a lot like his rookie season, actually, which brought about a renewed sense of excitement and appreciation among the fan base. It's funny; never has a player worked so hard and made so many adjustments to remain basically the same kind of spectacle year in, year out. Ichiro is seemingly always evolving and always trying to stay one step ahead of the opposition, yet the output is always so familiar - handful of homers, handful of doubles, and enough infield singles to drive the other team insane. It may not be the most traditionally manly way to go about being awesome, but loving Ichiro for his rollers to short is no different than loving Jose Reyes for his steals, and besides, if you tell Ichiro that he plays like a woman, he'll probably cut you. There's more than one way to be a Hall of Fame talent, and damned if Ichiro hasn't gone and perfected the most difficult.

Throughout its history, baseball's had more than its share of superstars come and go, guys who beat the crap out of the ball or drive in 140 runs or srike out 300 batters a season. And there's always going to be more of them for as long as the game exists, with new bats and arms exploding onto the scene every year to delight the locals and state their cases for eternal fame. Baseball, however, will never have another Ichiro. There'll be guys who post similar numbers, and guys who play the same kind of defense, but no one's ever going to approximate the whole package, because it's just so uniquely him. Ichiro, you have and will always arouse the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of our collective soul. We're thrilled that you're ours, and when the day eventually comes that you have to bid the Mariners goodbye, I imagine there will be a pain unlike any this team has caused me in a long, long time. A lot like getting punched in the face.

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hearing the
"fire that lies dormant" quote again made my day. Somebody's gotta make a diary of all the great ones from this past season

by CKel on Nov 12, 2007 7:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

UZR
The Ichiro discrepancy is all about balls out of zone.  The BIS data, on which PMR is built, thinks Ichiro is the best in the league at getting to balls hit into another players zone.  UZR doesn't give him the same credit for this that PMR/RZR do, because it (rightfully so, I think) feels that a lot of the balls he gets to would have been caught by a teammate had he not been there.  

So, in one sense, I think PMR/BIS data is telling us just how good Ichiro's range really is, while UZR is reminding us that it might not matter all that much if all he's doing is catching balls by calling off his neighbors.  

by davidcameron on Nov 12, 2007 7:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's always hilarious
seeing the other outfielders get in the path of the ball by running two steps and then having Ichiro run all the way over and catch it.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So then, what's the implication?
If all Ichiro's good range is doing is letting him pick off balls that would've been caught by a corner guy, then is good range really important? And if it isn't, then what's the difference between a good CF and a bad one?

Perhaps Ichiro isn't too great at charging fly balls in front of him, but I can't imagine he's one of the worst at it.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well in my opinion,
he does look really bad on fly balls in front of him and a lot worse compared to a lot of other CFs.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well
That's not all Ichiro's range is letting him do, but I do think, to some extent, Ichiro's defensive performance has been overstated because of the ballhog effect.

I'm not saying UZR is right and PMR is wrong.  I certainly don't agree that Ichiro's one of the worst defensive CFs in baseball.  But I do think that UZR correctly identifies that some of the plays that Ichiro makes are discretionary plays and don't add a ton of value to the team.  

by davidcameron on Nov 12, 2007 8:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't
call Ichiro is a ballhog. I think it's just because it usually happens with a runner on base and he knows he has a stronger and more accurate arm then Ibanez.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cut out the "is".
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He definitely stole a ton from Raul last year.
I guess the pressing question is this: what is it about Ichiro that UZR decided isn't up to snuff? If you assume that it's the OOZ plays that push him so far above the average in PMR/BIS, that's fine, but what's the additional factor that pushes him well into the negatives? That's the part that I really don't understand.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably just the bad play
on balls right in front of him. Plus, Ichiro plays really deep. With people like Griffey who played extremely shallow, it increased his range numbers went up on those deep fly balls. Ichiro doesn't get that advantage.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no clue what is
going on with my writing.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Best Guess
I'm not sure MGL has figured out how to deal with outliers in BIZ difficulty.  If you look at Pinto's Expected DER for the Mariners as a team, his data says that the M's defenders were playing at an extreme disadvantage and shouldn't have been expected to make nearly as many plays as a league average defense.  Since we all watched Horacio Ramirez and Jeff Weaver give up screaming line drives left and right, this is pretty easy to agree with subjectively.  

If Pinto's right and the M's pitchers gave up a lot of balls in play that were low probability of turning into outs, then UZR is probably going to punish the defenders harsher than it should.  One of the main differences between the two systems is how they calculate out probability on a given play, and it definitely appears that PMR thinks the M's had less catchable balls than UZR does.  

by davidcameron on Nov 12, 2007 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way
This theory (and its still a theory - I don't have access to the raw data to test it) explains the difference between RZR, UZR, and PMR fairly well, by the way.

RZR = BIS data on balls in his zones.  This calls Ichiro a little bit above average.  

PMR = BIS data on balls in his zones + balls out of his zone.  Thinks he's amazing.  

UZR = Stats data on balls in his zones, less extreme adjustment for difficulty of BIP, takes away value from out of zone plays.  Thinks he sucks.

This gives us an overall picture of a guy who does a pretty solid job of catching stuff he should catch while also catching a ridiculous amount of stuff that other people should catch.  To me, that sounds about right.  

by davidcameron on Nov 12, 2007 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So which one is the most
accurate, in your opinion?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

All of them
They're all telling partial truths, and since we have all three, there's no reason to pick one.  This is why I've been supporting a prism concept of looking at defensive statistics - none are perfect, but find the complementary ones that are each revealing partial truths and put the whole picture together.  

Overall, I think Ichiro's something like a +5 CF. Good, not great, pretty much what we should have expected when we moved him from RF - for him to have been a great CF, he'd have probably had to grade out at an Adam Everett type level as a right fielder.  

by davidcameron on Nov 12, 2007 9:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think the fact he was
bookended by guys with zero range hurt him more in UZR since he was forced to go outside his range more often (besides just being a ballhog)?

Also, does it help or hurt Ibanez/Guillen with Ichiro stealing their balls?

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 12, 2007 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why does everyone think he's
a ball hog?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Because he is?
As a fan, I don't care because if I have to choose between Ichiro catching the ball or Raul catching the ball, obviously I want Ichiro catching it.

But if I'm Ibanez, Ichiro is starting to piss me off.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Nov 12, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said though.
Ichiro seems to be doing it the majority of the time with runners on base, and both he and Ibanez knows that Ichiro has a much better arm. I wouldn't call him a ballhog if he's doing it for the good of the team.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

By definition
that's still a ballhog.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not by my definition
and it shouldn't be by anybody else's definition.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I'll tell them.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Coach's definition
FTW!!!
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 12, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That sounds reasonable.
A little weird, but reasonable.

I've been talking to Adam Morris a little bit about Ian Kinsler, who's in pretty much the exact same boat as Ichiro. Given that I think you have a better idea of his ability at second than I do, do you think the same idea applies? Because it'd be interesting if this could explain away a lot of the discrepancies.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 9:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Kinsler sucks?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dewan had Ichiro 3rd
in his fielding bible awards, behind Andruw and Beltran.
visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Nov 13, 2007 6:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For the record
I need to go back and re-read Pinto's post a few times, but that seems interesting to me, since THT says that Mariner pitchers allowed a league-average amount of line drives. It obviously doesn't mean much on its own, but if Pinto's data is telling him that the Mariners allowed a bunch of uncatchable liners, and THT disagrees, then that should be investigated.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 9:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Mariners
are a conspiracy.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, upon further review
Pinto's system is obviously way better than simply looking at LD rate. But I'd love to see someone account for the differences in out probability calculations between PMR and UZR. It seems to me like that's a pretty fundamental, important problem.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff making the appeal to the 5 people
who understand defensive stats enough to actually try to improve them...

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 12, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know what errors are.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 12, 2007 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is a big difference between me saying
"Hey I don't think that seems right." and actually getting off your ass and making something that works.  Its really amazing the systems out there work as well as they do.  If they are going to get better they are going to need to get pretty complicated.

by Edgar for Pres on Nov 12, 2007 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Someday I'll buy all the data
And have a crack at this sort of thing myself...

by Graham on Nov 13, 2007 2:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

all the BIS data?
Good luck with that. Costs way more than most people think.

by Matthew on Nov 13, 2007 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Single season data
for 2007 is $20.  Other prices are not listed, and you know what they say - if you have to ask...
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 13, 2007 9:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point
the play-by-play data they offer is likely to be prohibitively expensive for the individual user.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 13, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
take that $20 and start adding more than a couple 0's to the end.

by Matthew on Nov 13, 2007 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That'd be fine
Obviously not right now, of course, but sometime after my Aston...

by Graham on Nov 13, 2007 10:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Discretionary on some teams
But with Ibanez and Guillen in the corners, I would imagine a lot of out of zone plays were not quite discretionary.  Which leads me to ask, do any of these systems adjust the credit given to plays on balls out of one's zone based on the ability of their neighbors to make plays in their respective zones?  So, for instance, if Ibanez and Guillen both made fewer plays than expected on balls in their zone, do any of these metrics then give more value to Ichiro's plays on balls out of his zone?

Of course, there is the problem of determining whether the neighbors' poor performance on balls in their zone is due to their lack of range or due to ballhogging.  Chicken, meet egg.

by david h on Nov 12, 2007 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For me,
Ichiro is challenging Edgar for my favorite Mariner ever status.

If it weren't for all those years in Japan, he'd easily be chasing Pete Rose's record when all is said and done.

Long Live Ichiro!

I'll leave the defensive analysis to people who are smarter than I.

by Patrick517 on Nov 12, 2007 8:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

No one can replace Edgar.
it's like with Mack Strong and the Seahawks.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see what happens....
and "challenge" does not equal "replace".

by Patrick517 on Nov 12, 2007 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So Jeff, if you could have Ichiro
or Ty Cobb, or Roberto Clemente, who would you pick?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 8:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Uh
that's kind of an impossible question.

by Jeff on Nov 12, 2007 8:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take Ichiro
corpses in the ground don't have a lot of range.  Especially completely decayed ones.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 12, 2007 8:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Clemente's corpse isn't in the gorund.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 12, 2007 8:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Even more reason to go with Ichiro
ever seen a skeleton try to swim?

What, too soon?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 12, 2007 8:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your assuming the skeleton is in
swimming shape?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 12, 2007 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.
Could be the base of a lovely coral reef by now.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 12, 2007 9:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a sucker for happy endings.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 12, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did someone say
HAPPY ENDING?
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 12, 2007 9:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

'SUCK' TOO
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 12, 2007 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

HI GUYS! THIS IS JI
JIM THOME!
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NOW LOOK HERE JI
JIM-JAM WOULD NEVER KNOWINGLY MAKE A SUCH A TASTE LESS JOKE>
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Nov 12, 2007 10:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well he asked it
The answer's the impossible part

by chrisisasavage on Nov 13, 2007 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What, no mention of how delightfully
fun it is every year when PECOTA projects Ichiro to hit like .270/.310/.350 and then he does the same thing he always does?

by Matthew on Nov 12, 2007 9:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's why Ichiro is
scary every Spring Training. I don't want to expect too much out of him and when he starts declining, we'll have a big problem.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ZOMG!
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That reminds me
way back in the day there were these old women who would sit behind my family at most games, knitting and such, and they were huge Omar Vizquel fans.  Every time - EVERY TIME - he came up to bat, they would count, "one, two, three" and yell "Homar, Omar!"  And then laugh.  Every time.

Only once did events conspire so that 1) I was at the game, 2) these ladies were at the game, and 3) Omar Vizquel hit a home run.  There was much rejoicing, followed by the line that will stick in my head until the day I die.  With absolute sincerity and awe, one of these women, bless her soul, exclaimed "I said Homar Omar, and he did!"

I heard her voice when I read your post.

by david h on Nov 12, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, old people.
Gotta love 'em... and laugh at them.
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Nov 12, 2007 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's like when Sexson finally hits a homerun
and someone says "For some reason, I totally thought he was going to hit home run just now!"
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 12, 2007 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha, or better
replace home run with "strikeout"
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 12, 2007 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and "finally"
with "again."

And "For some reason" with "based on a totally rational and skillful analysis of his rapidly declining skills,"

by david h on Nov 12, 2007 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh
I chuckled.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 12, 2007 10:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
no fair, I've called a disproportionate number of his home runs, especially his salami's and other big home runs.  No idea why.  It's weird, I almost know.

by chrisisasavage on Nov 13, 2007 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Were they a part of the
"Older Women for Omar" group? I sat near them a couple of times - they were crazy for Little O. I still remember the signs.

by MtGrizzly on Nov 14, 2007 1:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
they did have signs, now that you mention it.

by david h on Nov 14, 2007 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Easy
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 14, 2007 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've technically been a Mariner fan since 94'-95',
when I went to my first M's game. Ichiro, however, was the catalyst that turned me from softcore fan to hardcore fan (along with that excellent 2001 season). Therefore, I was quite happy to see that he'd most likely end his career as a mariner.

by redwolf75 on Nov 12, 2007 11:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Jeff, when you say that Ichiro!
compares favourably with Beltran, do you mean better? Or similar?
visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Nov 13, 2007 6:17 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro! is fun to watch play.
I suppose most HOF level players are fun to watch, but Ichiro! is a factor whenever he is on the field.  Sure, he doesn't get every ball when he's on defense, but almost every game he does something that most other players can't do - either on offense or defense.  He's one of those players that makes baseball enjoyable for fans.

by Jed MC on Nov 13, 2007 7:34 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff Jeff
Ichiro! My favorite ballplayer ever.

How great it is that he's not a big topic (as he would have been for sure) of the hot stove league now.

by Tom C on Nov 13, 2007 9:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

So many of my favorite baseball moments
were made by watching Ichiro. Besides all the on field stuff, the guy is a true star: the crazy qoutes, his talk show in Japan, and the way he presents himself at all points on the field. The fact it is weird to hear other people call Ichiro by his last name!

Here he chatted up about 20 girls in between taken his bunting practice.
So much of what I will remember about Ichiro is in this picture.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marksobba/413528939/in/set-72157594575092740/

Seriously, it was an awesome moment.

by mark s on Nov 13, 2007 10:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nice pics Mark
I remember some of those pics from during the season (in the Diaries).

What is awesome is that those girls had travelled all the way from Japan just to catch Ichiro's spring training practice. That's star power man!

by Tom C on Nov 14, 2007 1:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
it was an awesome moment. The whole thing was like 15-20 minutes. Seriously, look at their faces. They are going to love Ichiro for life.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marksobba/413529607/in/set-72157594575092740/

by mark s on Nov 14, 2007 5:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff
We were just talking about Miguel Cabrera in the other diary and I was thinking - if we have time next year, can we make predictions about non-mariner players? Maybe some of the big name people that we've discussed and debated over the past year? I don't know how much work is involved since I wasn't on the site back when you did these last.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by Librocrat on Nov 13, 2007 3:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It wouldn't make sense.
The whole point of the community projections is to test the Wisdom of Crowds against PECOTA and ZiPS and all that good stuff. But the Wisdom of Crowds is only appropriate when the people being polled are especially educated on the player in question. We know Mariner players far better than anyone else.

by Jeff on Nov 13, 2007 5:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To put it simply,
with the exception of Beltran and Sizemore, I'd take Ichiro over any other CF any day.

by all4ms on Nov 14, 2007 12:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro!
The most refreshing thing about Ichiro's production last year was the fact that he didn't give up after getting a contract extension. I hate when professional athletes get their money and stop trying. The way Ichiro carries himself, plays the game, and never takes a day off makes me proud to say I'm a GIANT Ichiro fan. I'm glad he's a Mariner and will be staying around for a long time.

by coffee on Nov 14, 2007 9:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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