Mariner Outfield Defense according to 2007 UZR

by Manzanillos Cup on Oct 3, 2007 9:16 AM PDT

The best and worst of 2007 UZR are on Tango's Blog.

Ichiro: 14 runs worse than average
Ibanez: 30 runs worse than average
Guillen: 21 runs worse than average

Hmmmmmmmm...

Ichiro's defense:Mariners fans
as to
Jeter's defense:Mainstream baseball press.

Are we that stupid?
Discuss.

0 recs | Comment 17 comments

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Comments

You're doing it wrong

Or at least, doing it redundantly. Someone beat you to this, diary-wise.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 3, 2007 9:20 AM PDT 0 recs

Woohoo!

First!

by marc w on Oct 3, 2007 9:22 AM PDT up 0 recs

Beat me by seven minutes.

..or while I was writing it. Sorry about that.

by Manzanillos Cup on Oct 3, 2007 9:24 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yikes.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Oct 3, 2007 9:20 AM PDT 0 recs

There's an expanation for this, right?

I refuse to believe Ichiro is below average at anything. Do Ibanez and Guillen make him rate worse?

by Zack on Oct 3, 2007 9:39 AM PDT 0 recs

No, we're not that stupid.

Unless I'm mistaken you have pretty much every defensive metric and scout saying Ichiro's awesome in CF and only UZR saying he's not. There's gotta be something in the STATS data.

by Matthew on Oct 3, 2007 10:06 AM PDT 0 recs

RZR on THT (BIS) doesn't consider

Ichiro awesome either, though RZR is more sanguine than UZR.

He's 1st in the AL, and in MLB, in OOZ plays with 95, but by RZR, 893, only 7th out of 10, ahead of Sizemore, Wells and GMJ, behind Granderson, DeJesus, Crisp, Melky, Patterson, Hunter. In the NL, he would be 5th out of 7.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Oct 3, 2007 10:35 AM PDT up 0 recs

Didn't see the post below

when I posted this.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Oct 3, 2007 10:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

OOZ is important though

because if Ichiro positions himself differently from the average CF (say he plays further back), then his RZR on in zone plays would appear below average (some balls dropping in front of him, in zone, would be caught by CFers playing at normal depth) but his OOZ would spike (because he would get to lots of deeper flyballs and balls in the gap that shallower playing CF wouldn't).

by Matthew on Oct 3, 2007 10:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

And as I said in the diary below

that does appear to have happened w/Ichiro. His in zone rating isn't all that amazing, as rfloh points out. But Ichiro makes up for it in OOZ plays, which is either a testament to the wisdom of his positioning, or a testament to the fact that he needs to go catch anything he can possibly get to, in order to minimize the Ibanez-damage.

by marc w on Oct 3, 2007 11:04 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah.

If the OOZ is not some fluke, or due to ballhogging, Ichiro! would be considered awesome by THT's data.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Oct 3, 2007 11:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

The THT numbers say Ichiro's

the second-best CF in baseball (behind only Granderson).

But the THT data also shows that Ichiro leads all of baseball by a HUGE margin in plays made out of his zone, despite being somewhat below average on plays in his own zone. Perhaps that's a confounding factor, or maybe Ibanez and Guillen are just so bad its spilling over in the data.

Also, MGL's numbers show all 3 Mariners OFers as terrible, so there might be some sort of park factor at work.

I'm sure MGL will have a look at the M's outfield to figure out what's going on. Sort of like when PMR got adjusted after Orlando Hudson scored +60 runs by being a ball hog.

by Llewdor on Oct 3, 2007 10:25 AM PDT 0 recs