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My Internal Conflict

Back at school, there was an acquaintance of mine named Cristina. She was bright, she was motivated, she was sunny, she was attractive, she was successful, she was warm, she was approachable, she was compassionate - in short, she was as close to being flawless as any person I've ever met. Got along with pretty much everyone on campus. There was really no good reason not to like her, yet whenever I entertained the notion of getting to know her better, I was overruled by a little part of my brain that found her to be annoying and mildly unpleasant.

For the longest time, I was never able to figure out why my mind worked that way, why part of me was consciously resisting something with so much appeal and so little downside. I would literally sit there and tell my brain what to think, but it would ignore me and continue raising its mysterious objections, objections which for months and months I never quite understood.

Then the Rockies happened.

Somewhere between going on an unprecedented run, sneaking into the playoffs, and blowing through their first two October opponents, the Rockies became America's sweetheart. I can't remember there ever being a better story in the big leagues, at least not in my lifetime. Every single one of the cliched, traditional components is there to make this a season for the ages, the kind of thing that'll eventually be memorialized in the baseball equivalent of Hoosiers or Miracle. Perennial doormat. Blue-collar manager eager for a second chance after a disappointing playing history. Roster full of unknowns and retread veterans without a big-name superstar. Inspirational leader dying to finally see October. Small(er)-market setting. Loyal fan base. Polite, humble team attitude. Complete surprise. Constant dramatics. Within the past month of Colorado baseball you can find elements of every uplifting sports movie ever made. It is, as of this moment, the perfect story.

Yet, as much as I want to like the Rockies and root for them to take the Series, something's stopping me from jumping headfirst onto the bandwagon. I tell myself "don't be silly, there's no reason to root against them," but it's to no avail. My brain just won't let me really get swept up like pretty much everyone else in the country already has.

Only recently did I figure out what the problem is. It took a little work and a lot of thought, but what I eventually came up with is that the Rockies, like Cristina, are too perfect. Unreasonably perfect. Excessively perfect. The reason part of my brain won't let me like Cristina or the Rockies is that there's nothing not to like about them. I guess I have an inherent craving for flaws that these two parties just can't provide. In order for me to like them, they'd need to be less likable.

Maybe I can't really explain this well in writing. Or maybe I am explaining it well and you actually feel the same way. I dunno. But you know how for a few weeks in September we couldn't stop making fun of The Final Season? It's the same kind of thing. Both great stories, but both perfect to a fault. There was a time when I would've been blown away by that kind of Cinderella story, but I've been so inundated by inspirational messages that I've reached the point at which I need something different. Regardless of how "real" it actually is, this Rockies thing basically feels too scripted and formulaic. It obviously isn't - we're not talking about the NBA, after all - but that's how it feels, and seeing Colorado take the Series wouldn't exactly serve to change the appearance. I imagine that small but opinionated part of my brain would find this to be a better story if the Rockies go on to lose in heartbreaking fashion.

I'm not sure why my head works this way, but it does, so unless something drastic happens over the coming week that makes the Rockies a little less universally appealing (anyone seen Denny Neagle's prostitute?), I don't think I'll be able to grant them my undivided support. There's just no convincing that little contrarian part of my brain to jump on board as long as they're living this fairytale.

Unless they play Boston.

Evil changes everything.

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I live for
baseball/women analogies.  Too often do I find myself making them and the people around me are ignorant of the game (either one) to get them.

I feel the same way.  I'm a little jealous of the Rockies.  It's as though they were the dumb kid in class and now here they are doing really well getting A's n shit.  The Mariners want to be like "hey, nice job dude. way to go" but really inside they are jealous.

I also hate when teams dominate their way to a championship (though by all means Mariners go right on ahead) ie Red Sox in 2004 and White Sox in 2005.  The sweeps just aren't as fun.

So hey Rockies quit being so perfect.  You're making us look bad.

Other analogies: Rockies are like the ugly girl who goes away for the summer and suddenly gets hot and you're like damn what happened thats fucking awesome and then you realize she's now a total bitch.

by Diatribe on Oct 17, 2007 8:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't help it
I normally would say that I hate the Rockies because they're from the same city as the Broncos, which is the team I hate most in all professional sports.

However:

  1. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/the_bonus/09/18/coolbaugh0924/index.html
  2. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3049388
I give up on this one. Go Rockies.

by paul in kirkland on Oct 17, 2007 8:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm just a dick, but my sympathy starts
to fade for these people when they pose for pictures like that. We get it, your sad. Boo hoo. You don't have to sit there with your two kids and frown to make us all feel bad.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 17, 2007 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My respect for Zombie Duncan went up 10
points when I read that article.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 17, 2007 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do I laugh every time
I see this picture?  I don't like it when kids have hurt feelings, but if he's such a huge Sox fan why did ask for the guy's autograph?  It's not like Duncan is a future HOFer.

by Jed MC on Oct 18, 2007 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they'd be much more dignified
if they looked um... happy(?) in the picture... or if it was at least a nice family photo... er... something.

I'm sure it was the SI writer's idea for the frowny face photo, and there's a big fucking difference between this and Zombie Duncan's Hilarious Authograph-- so I'll cut them some slack.

by JI on Oct 17, 2007 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno...
...I think maybe you are being kinda a dick.

I can understand disliking the photo and such, but losing sympathy because of it?

by Username2 on Oct 17, 2007 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we're all just a little pissed that
they're leaving the club. I know I am. Assholes.

Oh and fuck Troy Tulodfgjkdlfgklkldfgwitsky. Seriously.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 17, 2007 8:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

does Cristina like baseball?
and if so, can I call dibs since you don't want them?

by Matthew on Oct 17, 2007 8:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cristina is also taken.
(Okay, so she's not completely perfect.)

by Jeff on Oct 17, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And this year's playoffs are almost perfect
Rockies have won every game.  
Cleveland beats the Yankees and maybe the Red Sox.
No Red Sox vs Yankees.

But in the end these teams play in other cities, so there are taken by other fans and I won't get to celebrate a world series victory.

by Fan since Rupert Jones on Oct 18, 2007 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true
A lead pipe is the 21st century's dinner and a movie.

by Robert on Oct 18, 2007 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

it raises an interesting point
which I think any self-aware Seattle sports fan have come face to face with at least once; are we conditioned to failure/cynicism/depression/similar trait?

<pysch BS>
I bet some of what irks some people about situations like what Jeff describes is that these perfect people are just a constant reflection of your negative qualities. "Jesus, why is she always so damn happy?" is really just "I wish I could be that happy all the time." and we end up resenting the person for making us confront the fact that we are not.
</pysch BS>

by Matthew on Oct 17, 2007 9:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude . . .
Whatever happened to just wanting to get laid?
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Oct 17, 2007 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More psych BS...
Perhaps Jeff isn't into Cristina precisely because he loves to find nits to pick in people -- to affirm and boost his ego.  Because he cannot find them in her, it makes him feel inferior.  So he's using her "perfection" as precisely that oddity that sets her apart from everyone else, just so he can find some difference to shoot down...
Imagine what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig-zag...

by PositivePaul on Oct 18, 2007 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait till you find out
about Cristina's eating disorder.

Great write-up.  And yeah, I feel the same way.  I want to be excited for the Rockies, and I just can't.  It's just too perfect, the way the Rams super bowl run several years ago was too perfect, the way the DBacks 2001 title run was too perfect, and yeah, the Red Sox 2004 World Series title, etc.

It's not that it seems scripted, it's just that it seems too perfect.

I think an awesome counterexample of an underdog I got behind and why... is the George Mason basketball team from 2006.  They weren't even close to perfect.  None of their guys were particularly talented.  Their center looked like a dump truck.  They walked the ball up the floor on every play and Villanova'd the ball around until the shot clock ran out or somebody got open.  And then they'd go back on defense, play pedestrian defense, stayed in front of their guys somehow and made enough stops and made enough shots to stay close or get ahead.  It's a team that, looking objectively at the field of 64, had no business going past the 2nd round, and yet there they were beating juggernaut after juggernaut, the tortoise outrunning the hare in the end (until they got smeared by Florida).

by Gomez on Oct 17, 2007 9:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

George Mason beating Connecticut was great.
Will it be too perfect when Shawn Stockton leads the Montana Grizzlies to the final four three years from now?

by Patrick517 on Oct 18, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get you loud and clear
I don't know if you "explained" it perfectly, but half way through your intro I knew what you were saying because I have the same condition. At this point, I've accepted the label of iconoclast. I ALWAYS root for underdogs. And sweeps are boring. Try losing now and then (and then come back dramatically) if you want me to pay attention.

by johnbai on Oct 17, 2007 10:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

mostly agree
though in this case, I think I would find it insanely gleeful if there's a close series between Cleveland and Colorado that ends in game 7, in cleveland with Joe Borowski blowing the game on a Todd Helton solo HR in the 9th

by Matthew on Oct 17, 2007 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no problem disliking the Rockies
But it has nothing to do with resentment of their lofty personal qualities.  I'm just a bitter Mariners fan who wants to destroy the joy of others who haven't suffered like me.

by Paytheline on Oct 17, 2007 11:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the thing
The '95 Mariners didn't get to win, why should the '07 Rockies??
What do I look like, a guy who's not lazy?

by Rollo Tomasi on Oct 17, 2007 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have the same problem
but his name is Ben Broussard.

by JLC on Oct 17, 2007 11:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Boston
Jeff-
I have been a long time reader but only recently have created a user name.  I was raised in Seattle and have always loved the Mariners.  From October 2006-June 2007 however I lived in Boston.  I somehow also was at the king's one hitter in right field in the front corner of the bleechers where the railing blocks your view but the game was still...
Anyway this particular post caught my because I knew a girl in boston, I worked with her, who is similar perhaps to your description,(obviously broad) and who spelt her name the exact same way.  (I remember a conversation with her where she explained how important it was to her mother that her name is cristina and not christina, not crissy also).  Anyway I can understand if you for what ever reason don't want to talk about this but your post made me very curious.
Also she graduated from BU in 2007, very strange that we might share this connection.

greatunibrow- greatunibrow@yahoo.com

by greatunibrow on Oct 18, 2007 12:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Different school, different Cristina.
Although perhaps many Cristinas are alike in this regard.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Potential fathers take note:
name your daughter Cristina, and you can sleep easy knowing she's essentially Jeff-proof

(Cue "The More You Know" music)

by ningwers on Oct 18, 2007 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name your daughter Kathleen
and she'll be trouble for boys named Matthew.
Free Adam Jones

by bluemax on Oct 18, 2007 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Francis
was a physics major at UBC before he turned pro.  Good enough for me.

by timc on Oct 18, 2007 6:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is why
im glad the Rockies have always been one of the 3 main teams I follow in baseball.

Like Goose with the DBacks, the Rocks---along with the Brewers---have always been a team I have loved. I can say that technically, im not on any bandwagon.

I say enjoy this. You wont see anything like this for a long time...

Besides, for you to see them as media darlings, you have to be watching or reading some form of media. Get away from that and you'll be fine. I never watch ESPN anymore and I dont read media sites. The Rockies will be forgotten the minute New York or Boston get to another World Series, or sign another huge name...

Thats what happens when you're an all around Seattle fan. You ignore the media more.

by Slica on Oct 18, 2007 7:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I just root for a non espn/fox love fest in the WS
After that, as long as its a good series I won't really care.  I gotta go for Cleveland, though, because when it comes down to it the Rockies aren't that good and Cleveland could definitely be argued as the best team in baseball this year.

I like seeing teams dominate, but only if they are legit.  I don't like the Spurs but they were so much better than the Cavs I didn't want Lebron to win one game against them.  I'm sort of rooting for the Pats to go unbeaten for the entire NFL season.  But the Rockies breezing through the postseason just doesn't seem right.  An inferior team from an inferior league shouldn't get to win it all two years in a row.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So, explain to me what the Rockies
"aren't that good". And please don't say "Durrr, they're in the AAAA, also known as the NL!!1!!ONE!!"
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 18, 2007 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what=why
Obviously I need to go back to sleep.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 18, 2007 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the Rockies suck
Winning 21 of 22 games must by definition mean that you suck as a team.  How much more would the Rockies have to do to "dominate", in your opinion?  

An inferior team from an inferior league shouldn't get to win it all two years in a row.

Get over it.  If they're that inferior, they wouldn't be where they are.

I like seeing teams dominate, but only if they are legit.

Again, how much more would a team have to do to be "legit", in your eyes?  The rockies HAVEN'T LOST IN A MONTH.  That's gotta count for something.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get over it is right.
This whole NL=AAAA thing is starting to get a little old.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 18, 2007 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get over what?
the NL isn't as good as the AL.  Just using that fact to illustrate that the Rockies aren't on the same level, talent-wise, as any of the AL playoff teams.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm....
...the first statement is, in no way, connected to the second.

by rtang on Oct 18, 2007 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I argue the second statement
I would use the first statement to help illustrate that.  It's not all I would use, but I would still use it.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, the Rockies are good, I'll give you that
I didn't realize, but they did have the best pythag in the NL.  They just don't strike me as a great team, though.  It just sort of bugs me that they came out of nowhere (and eked into the playoffs while a couple other teams collapsed) and now are rolling through the playoffs like it was nothing.

I'm not debating the fact that they are dominating, because they clearly are.  I just like to see really, really good teams do that, not ones that eked into the playoffs.  If the 2001 M's had done this in the playoffs, they'd be talked about as one of the best teams of all time.  You think the Rockies will be in that conversation?

And it didn't annoy anyone that St. Louis won the WS last year when Detroit was clearly the better team?  The whole playoffs are a crapshoot thing is right on, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Detroit wasn't the better team last year
Not when it counted.    

t just sort of bugs me that they came out of nowhere...and now are rolling through the playoffs like it was nothing.

Your ignorance or lack of awareness of their existence up until October does not qualify as them coming out of nowhere.

I just like to see really, really good teams do that, not ones that eked into the playoffs.

/head starts spinning

I guess it comes down to the question of whether you prefer an assemblage of correctly assembled talent, or whether you prefer a team that wins when they need to - which often are two different things.  

Ultimately speaking, in October, it doesn't matter how you got there, or how you played in June.  I'm not normally a fan of results-based analysis, but if I'm a Rockies fan today, it's my best friend.  Who cares how close to (or far below) .500 they were in May?  They're playing right now, and that's what matters.

If the 2007 Mariners followed the same season arc as the Rockies, I guarantee you you'd not be complaining about either their unsuitability for the playoffs, or the fact that they didn't dominate all season but are now four wins away from a World Series ring.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it hilarious when people refer to teams
like the Rockies as "coming out of nowhere". If you've been paying any attention to baseball at all, the Rockies have been on the radar for quite some time.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 18, 2007 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it is an expression
They won a bunch of games at the end of the season, while teams like San Diego and NY lost some.  For most of the year they were in 4th place.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A quote:
"Someone who likes, say, the Rockies might get up for a dozen or two games over the course of the year, and spend the rest of the time hoping for the development of younger prospects."

I'm pretty sure the author there follows baseball as closely as anyone alive.

by Graham on Oct 18, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just stated my opinion
All I'm saying is that if a team is going to dominate and roll through the playoffs, I'd rather it be one that is a legit, great team.  It's just what I prefer.

If you want to say, "Dude, you're wrong, the Rockies are one of the best teams in the last decade", then fine, but I don't think you're saying that.  And I don't care if they are "doing it when it counts".  I'm not a Rockies fan.  And I don't buy that a team is better then others because they can do it when it counts.

by Zack on Oct 18, 2007 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
With your opinion, and with your point about the criticism you are receiving for it.  It makes very little sense - I think people are already getting bored with the offseason and need to argue when there is no reason to.

Also, winning 21 of 22 to get to this point actually supports your position.  21 of 22 takes a substantial amount of luck, even for a great team (a label which no one here is applying to the Rockies).

by david h on Oct 18, 2007 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a matter of aesthetics
To use a non baseball example, Liverpool won the European Champions league in 2005. Best team in Europe? According to Everton fans, they weren't even the best team on Merseyside. Which was true since they finished 5th in their domestic league, behind 4th placed Everton.

Or put it another way, who is the "best" sprinter, the fastest man in the world? The WR holder or the olympic champion, who has traditionally been considered the fastest man in the world.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Oct 18, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They don't strike you as a great team why?
Because you don't know much about them? Because they don't have any big names besides Helton? Because they play in the "inferior" NL?

Yeah know what, if anything, I'm glad St.Louis beat Detroit this year. And if it wasn't for the fact that the Rockies irritate me because of my allegiances, I'd be rooting for them too. Because the smugness of the AL is starting to get on my nerves.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Oct 18, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because you don't like it
Doesn't make the NL/AL talent gap go away.

I don't think the Rockies have come out of nowhere and suck. I just hate fairytales when it's not happening to my team. Screw everyone else.

Oh, and because I predicted a Tribe/Pads WS in March, and being wrong sucks.

Go Tribe!

by Graham on Oct 18, 2007 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still have the feeling
That no matter who the Rockies play in the Series, that the streak will end with game 1 - they'll probably get shelled, because of a nasty combination of Fox-mandated off time and a ridiculous rush of adrenalin that will make them all sorts of hacktastic and nervous.  Then after Game 1, they'll calm down and win the rest of the series.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 10:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The World Series will show us
what the Rockies are made of.  They won two series against some talented but pretty flawed teams.  Whether they end up facing the Bosox or Cleveland, their opponent in the World Series is going to be a more complete ballclub with a more imposing rotation and MOTO.

by Gomez on Oct 18, 2007 10:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh huh.
Hamels/Kendrick/Moyer and Webb/Davis/Hernandez aren't exactly Sabathia/Carmona/Westbrook or Beckett/Schilling/Matsuzaka.

The Rockies have played great baseball these past few weeks, but at the same time they haven't faced anything quite like what they're going to see in the Series. Hot streak or not, they're rightfully going to be huge underdogs. (Which only adds to the irritating perfection of their story.)

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then again
They went through Jake Peavy to get in on a "win-or-go-home" game.

And really, they didn't just face the NL guys above.  They rolled over them.

Unless the Rockies are more like a streaky team than I think they are Red Sox/Indians have their work cut out for them.

by ThundaPC on Oct 18, 2007 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially the Sox
because their pitching has been pretty damn shaky so far this month.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their non-Beckett/Schilling pitching, I mean
mostly I meant their middle relief.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rox
appeared the better, more complete team in each of their recent series.

That probably will not be the case in the World Series.  Chris Young isn't on the level of Manny Ramirez or Victor Martinez.  Jeff pointed out the difference in the quality of the playoff rotations.

Now, if the small sample size leads to crazy swings of luck that somehow costs the Rox 2-3 games they easily could have won, bloop singles, random bounces, someone good forgetting how to play competently, then it'd be safe to say that their performance isn't indicative of what they can do.

But if they played their respective 5/7 game series 10 times, do you seriously believe the Phillies or D-Backs could win any more than 3-4 of those?

by Gomez on Oct 18, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?
the point is a best-of-seven series in isolation isn't going to tell you really anything about "what the Rockies are made of"

by Matthew on Oct 18, 2007 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Fluke" isn't the right word.
It just doesn't tell you much of anything. Even a team that's 33% worse than its opponent can still expect to win a seven-game series 28% of the time.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

like Jeff said
it's a small sample. You just cannot draw conclusions from small samples. Win/lose/sweep/swept it doesn't really matter because it is at most 7 games.

by Matthew on Oct 18, 2007 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Accepting these premises
Here's a follow up question to ponder: What is the purpose, then, of taking a postseason seriously as an educated fan, if it proves nothing other than who has enough positive fortune to take three consecutive playoff series?

by Gomez on Oct 18, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the one hand
you could just not take the postseason all too seriously; OTOH, if that is unpalatable, enjoy the postseason and don't think too much about things like SSZ.
visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Oct 18, 2007 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the former
challenges the common perception of the value of the postseason.  In the eyes of basically every fan, this is what your team plays for, and it's quite a blow to that to argue that a team's performance therein proves nothing.

This is not to disagree with anyone who has said so, but to shed light on an intereting idea.

by Gomez on Oct 18, 2007 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is no point
that's just what we do.

Why even take baseball seriously?

by Matthew on Oct 18, 2007 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's entertaining and dramatic
and everybody loves watching celebrations.

Plus, just because the best team doesn't always win doesn't make the trophy meaningless. That team and its fans are the only people who get to end their season on a high. It kind of validates a fan base's entire existence, in a way.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So let's go back to your premise
My point isn't so much is 'Let's see who wins because whoever wins is better' but 'will the Rockies look as dominant or even competitive as they have, against a team that is better in quality than their last two opponents?'

by Gomez on Oct 18, 2007 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and my point is
who cares? you cannot draw anything meaningful from it.

It's like comparing how Ichiro looks against Johan Santana in one game versus how he looks against Ramon Ortiz in the next.  

by Matthew on Oct 18, 2007 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
The Rockies are just too goody-two-shoes.  Where's the sordid past, the cigarette-smoking first baseman, the voodoo-practicing outfielder, the twice-divorced veteran pitcher?  Where?  These Rockies are finding redemption, but from what? Being a losing team?  That's stupid.

by Blastings Thrilledge on Oct 18, 2007 11:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

From having to live in Denver
and from wearing purple unis.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah . .
the 300+ days of sunshine per year, Rocky mountains and incredible skiing are really hard things to endure out here. That and the fact that Denver Metro is light years in front of Seattle for public transportation. Are you serious?  Look, I love the Seattle area and lived there for 20+ years, but Denver is an incredible place to live.  Have you even been to more than the airport? I mean, I will be using my back patio and grilling into December.  That's pretty nice.

I'll agree with on the purple uniforms, though.  

I am still an M's fan, and they will be my favorite team forever, but I will be rooting for the Rockies to win it all this year.  This is an incredible sports town, even if I feel the same about the Broncos as most Seahawk fans!

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." --Yogi Berra

by Mariner fan in Rockies exile on Oct 18, 2007 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just being snarky, mostly
I had family in Littleton for a long time, and my last job took me to Denver/Golden quite a bit.  it is a very nice place.  Sorry to raise the hackles.

But defend the purple uniforms, g'wan, I dare ya!

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know, I know
Glass houses, stones, etc.  I'm just completely and utterly envious of what the Rockies are doing and how they're doing it, and I'm lashing out because of it.  Man, I suck.  
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries . . .
I will say that I consider living in the Seattle area and living here about a toss up, with the tie going to my wife who is from here.  Not having the ocean around is kind of a drag at times.

And I won't defend the uniforms, and I don't like the sleevless numbers all that much, though the black is kind of nice.  The purple pinstripes I'm not that crazy about, since pinstripes will always mean some of the old-time teams to me.

I didn't mean to get riled up, but it's either do that or work, right?

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." --Yogi Berra

by Mariner fan in Rockies exile on Oct 18, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry Jeff . . .
but, not surprisingly, I can't agree with you.  Maybe part of you is upset that the M's got stopped by Cleveland in '95, where the Rockies - against National league teams admittedly - steamrolled through?

Here's my futile attempt to change your mind - Corpas apparently cheated in the NLDS . .that's bad right?  Fuentes lost his closer job after a bunch of blown saves . .

Well, if nothing else, I won't let you rain on my parade, especially if I can score some WS tickets.  I agree with you most days, Jeff, but not today.

Go Rockies!

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." --Yogi Berra

by Mariner fan in Rockies exile on Oct 18, 2007 11:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not trying to rain on any parade.
Rockies fans should be having the time of their lives. I want to enjoy it, too, but it's just that part of my brain won't let me.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough, Jeff.
Out of curiosity, did you enjoy the part of Star Wars Episode III, where Anankin took out all the baby Jedi?  Just wondering.  

I really don't think it's any more complicated than thinking of the t.v., movie, and comic book characters most people like most.  We like to see flawed heroes, because we identify with them in ways.  We cheer for the guy who has been down most of his life to have one moment so meaningful that the rest of the crap he's been through means something, and redeems it.  We want to see a lifetime of struggle before the pay-off because that's what makes it so sweet.  Well, the Rockies players, for the most part, don't have that.  No seedy elements or guys who were scraping by or getting it all wrong and then become the hero.  It is, as you say, how an idealistic but fairly unimaginitive writer would script it.

What makes it so sweet for Rockies fans, is nothing more than the fact it is happening here, and with an incredible surge.  Everybody seems to get in this effort.  They are an exceptional TEAM.  But I get where you are coming from.  We love the movie Major League because those guys all had serious problems they put aside to achieve something together.  The Rockies are relatively young, and mostly squeky clean.  They play like a real team.  Even though I agree with you that the Red Sox have the most obnoxious fans - short of the University of Michigan football fans, I'd argue - I enjoyed their win that year because of the rag-tag group of characters who achieved an amazing run.  The Rockies don't have players with much drama to them.  No loud-mouths, no larger than life guys, no bad news bear aspects to cheer on.  They aren't boring, but it's hard to grasp some key elements to make you like them more than the competition.  My take, anyway.

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." --Yogi Berra

by Mariner fan in Rockies exile on Oct 18, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I loved that scene
The little Jedi boy staring pathetically at Vader with that dumbfuck open-mouthed look on his face: priceless. That was the best part of the movie.
Willie is ours, and you can't have him

by spittle8 on Oct 20, 2007 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man, that analogy
makes me want to bang the Rockies.

Am I doing this wrong?

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Oct 18, 2007 11:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The god thing
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060619/zirin

The above is a great article about it, but from last year.

BTW, anyone read Zirin's books? He seems like a good writer.

by little joey on Oct 18, 2007 12:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I fully agree
Every time I see anything about baseball all I can think about is, what are the M's going to do about 1st base, 2nd base, and pitching.

I also agree with, "Evil changes everything", I for first time witnessed evil. I had to go to Boston, well Spring Feild Mass for a wedding, and since my wife went to law school in bean town we spent a few days there. It was a scary scary sight out side of fenway.

by InSpokane on Oct 18, 2007 1:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Springfield is horrible
(and, FYI, nowhere near Boston)

Springfield was one of the hardest-hit Mass. towns economically (factory closures, job losses) in the 80's/early 90's, and it's never fully recovered - there's really no reason to go there unless you live there.  Or have family there, I guess.

Completely forgetting the sports context, Boston is a fantastic city; Springfield, not so much.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Boston.
The rest of Massachusetts, not so much.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dated a girl from Chicopee
for a while, and the first time she showed me where she lived I kinda wigged out because it was so run-down.  And I used to live across from Hartford Public High, so I was used to not-so-great neighborhoods.  But that area...man.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boston's a great city
until you start recognizing the people panhandling and you just want to yell at the guy who looks like ZZ Top, wears his ski jacket, pants, hat, and gloves in the subway in August when it's 100+ and about 90% humidity and when the wind blows it gets hotter and more polluted.  It probably was the weather, but I still get frustrated at that guy 6 years after moving out of Boston.

by Jed MC on Oct 18, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The weather is indeed quite unbearable.
I could never survive a Boston summer.

by Jeff on Oct 18, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It ain't fun
but on the plus side, drinking on your deck at 11pm and still being able to wear shorts is a good thing.  You San Diegans, what with the perfect weather and whatnot,  can't probably relate, but as a lifelong Northwesterner up to that point, this was a very good thing.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

northeast vs northwest seasons
Spring: n'east (tiny): less rain
Summer: n'west (HUGE): less/no humidity, cooler temps, lots of sunny days
Autumn: n'east (avg): better foliage, less rain
Winter: n'west (HUGE): snow sports, less cold, less wind

by Matthew on Oct 18, 2007 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the wind I can't stand.
My brother wanted me to move to Bellingham when he lived up there, but there was no way because it seems like it's ALWAYS windy up there. It must blow right in off the strait.
I'm never blocking a fire exit.

by Thingray on Oct 18, 2007 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the weather is a big reason
why people who live in the northeast are such jerks.  You have about 2 months of reasonable weather and the rest is either way too hot and humid or way too cold - like freeze your balls through three layers of underwear cold.  It's just impossible to be outgoing and friendly when you're fighting the climate.  My wife just went back to visit her family in New England after we moved to Portland, OR two years ago and her family couldn't believe how mellow she'd become.

by Jed MC on Oct 18, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No matter how much it rains here
in Portland, one thing always remains:  In the winter, you don't ever have to shovel the rain off your car in the morning to get it out of the parking lot.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true, but . ..
And if it does snow, the city shuts down for the day, despite not needing to.
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Oct 18, 2007 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is teh awesome
because that means I don't have to go in to work and can go to the bar instead.  Where's the downside there?
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Oct 18, 2007 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

downside
My work doesn't disappear when then snow melts.

It's kind of funny, since I work in Salem and line in Milwaukie.  One day there's ice down there, and at home it's just raining.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Oct 18, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was pretty funny last winter
when it snowed 3 inches and the mayor shut down the city.  Safeway was jammed, all the water and TP was sold out, and people were literally crying in the aisles that they couldn't drive home.  Then after all the snow melted, people still drove around with their chains and pianos strapped to their roofs just in case there was black ice when it was 40 degree out.  Woo hoo!  Look at that pavement fly!

by Jed MC on Oct 18, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we flew into boston
hung out in boston a few days drove to Sprinfeild (about an hour) for a wedding, true story, and that was scary for diffrent reasons.  

It was friday when my wife and I walked around fenway, at around 2, and that was scary too, pure red sox evil. Boston the town though is cool.

by InSpokane on Oct 18, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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