John Thomson (or is it Thompson) = Blue Jay

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 1:19 PM PST in Seattle Mariners News, Regular

Normally, this news would be considered diary worthy. But as I said in a comment the other day, misery loves company so lets pour some more salt in the wounds.

John Thomson agreed to a one year, $500,000 (plus incentives) contract with the Blue Jays today. $500,000. It didn't cost them a multi-year deal. Or their best reliever. It cost them about $50,000 more than what the M's will be paying Horacio Ramirez this year. And $7.5 million less than what they will pay Batista. And about $100,000 more than the M's will pay Baek and Woods (whoever wins the 5th spot).

162 Game Averages (per career stats):
Thomson - 202.0 IP, 222 H, 127/58 K/BB, 4.69 ERA
Batista - 161.3 IP, 165 H, 101/69 K/BB, 4.46 ERA
Ramirez - 208.3 IP, 212 H, 99/80 K/BB, 4.13 ERA

All three are GB pitchers. All three are average pitchers. None of the three are anyone to get really excited about.

Just one costs a whole lot less than the others. Good times.

Update [2007-1-11 14:20:19 by Trent]:: Just to update this post, Thomson will actually earn a base salary of $1.5 million if he makes the roster out of spring training, with the possibility of earning between $4-5 million in incentives if he pitches all year. This doesn't change my opinion of the deal one bit. It's a terrific signing by the Jays and if they do in fact pay him between $4-5 million, it means he pitched above expectations and will still be a bargain in this market.

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rats

For that price, the Mariners could have still brought Thomson in to compete for the fifth starting job. Even for a million, he would have been a good deal.

by spokane dude on Jan 9, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions

Could it be . . .

there's something wrong with his health?

IIRC, there was mention that the M's requested his medical records. Then after that, nothing was said about him ever again.

Perhaps, in an ironic way, the M's experience with pitching injuries, came into play.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Jan 9, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions

Possibly...

but how does that explain trading for Ramirez or signing Reitsma? Both these pitchers have their own serious injury question marks going into 2007. Thomson would've just cost a whole heck of a lot less.

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 1:26 PM PST up reply actions

And a Happy New Year to you, too!

by Steve Nelson on Jan 9, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions

Well

if his med records show he's about to fall apart I wouldn't pay him. If Ramirez and Reitsma's records are fine then you feel much more comfortable about them.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions

Exactly

There are degrees of injury.

We can only hope that the Mariners' medical staff knows how to differentiate those that present very little risk vs those that post a lot of risk.

by worley on Jan 9, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions

They have enouhg experience

with arm injuries.

by Mariner John on Jan 9, 2007 6:49 PM PST up reply actions

To add to the confusion

Explain why he seems to think he's a $500,000 pitcher in an offseason that signed Joel for $4m.

I realize the immediate rational to look at this and shout "SEE THAT!" because it supports a particular perspective. But are we taking adequate steps to prevent confirmational bias?

How does this contract fit into the picture of the way GM's around the league, not just our own dumb ass, have acted? NYM could have thrown $2m at him like pocket change, they didn't. Nationals have money to top $500,000, they didn't. Braves wouldn't take him back for $500,000? Houston?

Why so little money?

Why did his name disappear after the report that the M's reviewed his medical records?

I'm not arguing about right and wrong. I'm just confused as to why so little.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Jan 9, 2007 3:15 PM PST up reply actions

Re: To add to the confusion

I'm not saying that Thomson isn't without risk. He has plenty of it to carry with him going into Blue Jays camp. Why were other teams not interested, I wish I knew. I do know the M's were talking money with Thomson's agent after reviewing his records, so they couldn't have been that worried. They just happened to make a trade to fill a hole and decided against going after Thomson anymore as they felt Baek/Woods = Thomson.

The Mets have internal candidates to fill out their rotation that would make less, so they weren't much of a fit. So do the Braves. And the Astros.

Just so that I can clarify, I'm not calling the M's stupid for not bringing him in now. I'm calling the M's stupid for trading their best reliever for a mediocre SP who is going to be making 8 times what Thomson will this year. I'm calling the M's stupid for sign Miguel Batista to a $25 million 3 year deal. Guys like Thomson were available and could have filled the holes that the M's needed filled without losing a young RP with a cannon and giving out multi-year monsterous contracts to average pitchers. Guys like Lawrence, Claussen, Thomson, Ohka, Armas, etc. would've made so much more sense for the M's and you probably could've brought in three of these guys, allowed them to compete for two spots and put the other guy in the pen or out on the street. It's why this team is not going to win under this management team.

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 5:39 PM PST up reply actions

Forgot to add:

Chris Reitsma - hasn't thrown a baseball since July of 2006 and had a procedure that I'm not familiar with nor understand the recovery time.
Jose Guillen - Underwent Tommy John surgery on his throwing arm and hasn't played in a game since late July. Recovery time tends to be anywhere from 8-14 months. Will he even be ready or even able to throw come April (he had the surgery in late July).
Horacio Ramirez - Has only pitched full season twice in his career (2003 and 2005). Missed the majority of last year with a partial torn finger ligament and hamstring problems.
Jose Vidro - His legs are shot. Has a knee that is apparently bone on bone and his hamstrings are in as bad a shape as Edgar's were. Has played 140+ plus games in his career four times, the last time coming in 2003.

There are four of the five "major" acquisitions this offseason. Out of the five, four of them have some serious injury concerns and question marks about them entering 2007. Of these four, only one of them played past the first week of August (Vidro).

So here is my question surrounding this whole thing and probably why this bugs me so much. If the aforementioned players were deemed as non-risks, why would Thomson be classified as risky? Especially at that rate. It makes zero sense. None.

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 5:56 PM PST up reply actions

At least

Reitsma and Guillen have short contracts and Ramirez is fairly cheap. Not that it makes it any better...

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2007 6:56 PM PST up reply actions

You're right

but Thomson would've been even less and possibly wouldn't have cost the M's Soriano.

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 7:26 PM PST up reply actions

I know, just trying to spin it to be better

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2007 7:37 PM PST up reply actions

spinning to make it better

Why does that thought remind me of the futility of trying make silk purses out of sow's ears?

by Steve Nelson on Jan 9, 2007 7:50 PM PST up reply actions

Thomson doesn't like Lo Duca

From Rotoworld:

John Thomson said he picked the Jays over the Mets in part because of Paul Lo Duca's presence in New York.
"As far as just looking at Paul Lo Duca across the field, I'm not really into how he acts behind the plate," Thomson said on a conference call. "I know a bit about Gregg Zaun and I know he wants to win and he's not going to let anything get in his way to do that, and I like that." Lo Duca has seemingly been well liked whereever he's played, but it's easy to see why his opponents wouldn't like him. Still, to choose maybe a third-place team in the AL East over a first-place team in the NL East might not been the best career move for the 33-year-old.

So the Mets were interested.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Jan 10, 2007 1:59 PM PST up reply actions

Is this a dagger which I see before me,

the handle toward my hand?

by MtGrizzly on Jan 9, 2007 2:01 PM PST reply actions

I must publicly eat some crow

I suggested quite a while back that our collective perception of fair market value for talent was out of whack. I said we should be patient with Bavasi because we only "assumed" that Thomson could be had for a small, short term contract... but actual signings seemed to indicate that starting pitching was more expensive (and harder to sign) than ever.

I said something like, instead of crucifying Bavasi, how about we wait and see if Thomson doesn't wind up with a $10 million/2 year contract somewhere.

OK. I lose. Bavasi really does suck.

by johnbai on Jan 9, 2007 2:30 PM PST reply actions

I THINK YOU MEAN THOMSON

ARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Jan 9, 2007 2:56 PM PST reply actions

Unreal!

Somebody please make it stop!!

Evening Perambulations - It's All About Seattle Mariners Baseball

by irontech on Jan 9, 2007 4:07 PM PST reply actions

Ramirez's career ERA is pretty good.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 9, 2007 5:39 PM PST reply actions

No it's not really.

You could say that yes but you have to remember he's only been pitching for four seasons and only two have been full seasons. I'm sure his ERA will be much high in say... 5 years.

by Coach Owens on Jan 9, 2007 6:00 PM PST up reply actions

HoRam's ERA

is deceiving. His second year in the major's it was an absurdly low 2.39. In nine games. In those 9 games, his K/BB ratio was 1.03 and he allowed 8 unearned runs over thos 9 games as well.

Besides, ERA isn't a good stat to compare pitchers. I just put it up there to show the similarity between everyone.

by Trent on Jan 9, 2007 6:10 PM PST up reply actions