Congrats Bill!
by Jerry on Jan 22, 2007 7:36 AM PST
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PrintBill Bavasi has been selected as the worst GM in baseball by Dayn Perry at Foxsports.com.
Congratulations Bill. It is well deserved.
Here is what Perry had to say about our beloved GM:
"No GM is worse when it comes to identifying free-agent targets, and on the trade market he's also played a little fast and loose with the organizational depth. He'll leave the M's as an organization that's in demonstrably worse shape than when he arrived."
The whole list is available at:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6392576
The silver lining to this: the M's next GM can't possibly do worse.
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It is Dayn Perry ...
Heh
"He'll leave the M's as an organization that's in demonstrably worse shape than when he arrived."
What the hell is that, Dayn?
Way to go!
have to disagree
All the same, after this winter he belongs in that bottom tier. And even if the superlatives in the article are unwarranted, the gist of it is true.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 22, 2007 7:53 AM PST reply actions
Dayn Perry is a tool
This is simply not true. While I won't disagree with the first part, the team he will be leaving is in a lot better shape than the team he took over from top to bottom.
Whether that...
Favor the Bold
by IcebreakerX on Jan 22, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Cubs, Orioles, Reds, Pirates
While it can be fun to bash management
Also got to take into account that Bavasi's job is on the line and he's playing to win now. He's not the GM that can really pull this team together under these circumstances but I can think of how things could be much worse than it is.
Pirates
I've got no love for Bavasi, but Littlefield is the worst GM in baseball, bar none.
by helfgott on Jan 22, 2007 8:53 AM PST reply actions
Hmmm. This year, I'm not sure...
Who would you rather have -- Horacio Ramirez or Adam LaRoche?
by PositivePaul on Jan 22, 2007 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
LaRoche
um
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 22, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Brent Lillibridge
yeah, that's THEIR version
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 22, 2007 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Laroche/Gonzalez
The Pirates are a horribly run franchise. More than a decade of losing seasons and they still have a bottom-5 farm system. Even Kansas City and Tampa Bay can reasonably look to the future with hope. Not so with Pittsburgh.
Beautiful stadium, though.
by helfgott on Jan 22, 2007 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that stadium
The worst part about the Pirates is that even when they actually have good players, they just give them away.
When was that?
by helfgott on Jan 22, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I gotta agree
The Orioles take the cake, though. They have money, and still are that bad. At least the Pirates can claim poverty.
I think a lot of these really critical appraisals of Bavasi are focusing on recent transactions. If you put a lot of weight into this offseason, then Bavasi is right at the bottom.
Name one GM who had a worse offseason?
No GM did more to hurt their club than Bavasi this offseason.
The only team that is even close is the Cubs, but at least they actually improved their team. They overpaid bigtime, but so did Bavasi. The difference is, Bavasi actually made the team worse.
Like we talked about earlier
More acolades for Bavasi
In the latest Sports Weekly, there is a little blurb about how Bavasi must be really confident in the training staff in bringing in Guillen, Reitsma, Ramirez, and Vidro. IMO, that is a totally legitimate comment.
In Phil Rogers latest list of top GMs at ESPN, Bavasi is the only General Manager singled out as particularly bad. Here is his comments:
"Cold Plate Special: Bill Bavasi, Seattle
Inheriting a great situation, the guy who built the Anaheim team that won in 2002 is rapidly returning the Mariners to the bad old years. Only Ichiro Suzuki has kept things interesting the last couple of years, and now he's weighing a departure from Seattle after this season. Bavasi has failed across the board. He's made bad trades -- getting nothing better than the since-departed Ramon Santiago for Carlos Guillen and having catcher Miguel Olivo and center fielder Jeremy Reed turn into busts after they were acquired for Freddy Garcia. He's made horrible free-agent signings in Adrian Beltre and Richie Sexson. He's made an unsuccessful managerial hire in Mike Hargrove, and made matters worse by stubbornly sticking by him. He's left trying to salvage a lost hand, so this winter he's brought in aging, damaged veterans like Jose Vidro and Horacio Ramirez at the expense of young players with upside (Rafael Soriano, Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto)."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2738814
Oof.
Previously, we saw the brutal criticism limited to guys like Keith Law and the authors at rotoworld. Now, it seems like Bavasi bashing is spreading to the mainstream national media.
I say great. I agree with most of the comments in this thread about how parts of Perry's article aren't completely fair.
But who cares!?!
Bavasi has done enough to get himself fired three times, just this offseason. I am not going to shed any tears is Perry and Rogers are being a bit too harsh.
Rogers is right in that Bavasi did come into a pretty good situation. The team was old and needed a rebuild, but the farm system was in pretty good shape at the time, and he had huge revenues, one of the best parks in baseball, and a great fanbase to work with. And since day one, he hasn't been able to stay out of his own way. His decision making has gotten increasingly worse every season.
If these types of articles make it even 1% more likely that he gets canned mid-season instead of after the world series, great! Awesome.
Yeah I agree with you guys
Bavasi versus Littlefield
Bavasi's moves:
-signs Jose Guillen
-trades Soriano to ATL for Ramirez
-trades Snelling and Fruto to WAS for Vidro, and gives him a vesting option
-signs Miguel Batista
-sign Reitsma
Littlefield's moves:
-trades Gonzalez and Lillibridge to ATL for Adam LaRoche
-signs Einar Diaz to minor league deal
-signs Jose Hernandez to minor league deal
Basically, Bavasi made two decent moves (Guillen and Reitsma), one moderately bad move (Batista) and two completely idiodic, unexplainable, unforgivable moves (Ramirez and Vidro). Littlefield made one pretty even trade for a guy who has upside, and two very minor moves.
Littlefield wins. He did what Bavasi should have done: sat on his hands until something that made sense came along, while avoiding a bloated free agent market.
It is certainly debatable that Littlefield is worse. But this year, Bavasi clearly put himself into the argument for worst GM in baseball.
So Jim Bowden is the best GM in the league?
by Mariner John on Jan 22, 2007 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Two things
Bowden and the Nationals clearly understand one thing that Bavasi doesn't: the value of freely available talent.
Bowden has also successfully recognized that adding a few mediocre to bad free agents to a team that isn't a contender is not the way forward. The Nationals are bad, but Bowden has them on the right track. He has made some very good trades the past year and a half. And he is building through the draft. The Nats had 4 picks in the first two rounds in the last draft, and they have 5 in the first two rounds in the upcoming draft. The Nationals have also made moves to establish themselves in the international market this year, although they did have to overpay for a 'big name' guy to do so. Bowden seems to understand what needs to happen to win. Bavasi never did. That is why we are almost definitely getting a 4th consecutive losing season this year.
Second, it is not like Bavasi had a sterling record coming into this offseason. In his time in Seattle, only the 2004-5 offseason could be described as anything besides a disaster. And that recent review of his moves in Anaheim wasn't exactly impressive. This offseason, I think that we are seeing the aftermath of vintage Bill Bavasi mixed with a little hot-seat desperation. A terrible mix.
I agree with you that you cannot judge a GM solely on his last offseason. But Bavasi has a long track record of sucking. Bowden is no genious, but, right now, I would much rather have him than Bavasi. Bowdens offseason this year was better than anything Bavasi has ever done in Seattle. By a large margin.
Lets not sugar coat this. You can make a pretty good argument that Bavasi is the worst GM in baseball. It is certainly debatable, and there are other GMs that are almost or equally bad. But Bavasi is in the conversation.
How are the picks an accomplishment?
by Mariner John on Jan 23, 2007 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
Not true
The M's under Gillick were terrible at this.
Good clubs, including some big-market teams that spend a lot in free agency like the Dodgers and Red Sox, that this into account.
For a rebuilding club, those picks are huge. You can't discount this is simply being poor. The only player they let go of any consequence was Alfonso Soriano. Signing him would have been a huge mistake for them. Now, they have four extra picks in the draft. Those picks will help them rebuild a depleted farms system.
These things aren't meaningless.
Ok...
They weren't going to re-sign Soriano for that price, as you said. The Soriano trade was good in hind sight, but few people thought Soriano would have the year he did. If you say it would've have been greatly stupid for them to re-sign Soriano at that price, how can you give him credit for getting the picks when it's a decision most any GM would've made if they were head of the Nationals. You can give him the Guillen pick, although the Nats are so loaded with outfielders it's not that hard of a decision to make. That only adds up to 3 extra picks (unless he got 3 from Soriano).
by Mariner John on Jan 23, 2007 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
Even with this offseason
Sort of like saying
you would rather face-plant in fresh horse shit than fresh cow shit though, isn't it? Either way, you still wind up with a face full of poo.
Have we quickly forgotten
Hmm...
Carl Everett!
(And, no, I'm not crediting Bavasi with Johjima since Joh basically jumped on board all by himself, in spite of Bavasi)
by PositivePaul on Jan 23, 2007 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget Washburn
Sure, Burnitz and Randa weren't exactly impact signings.
But guess how much the Pirates have to pay those two next year: $0.
How much do the still have to pay Washburn: $30 million.
At least Littlefield's overpaid veterans were just one year commitments.
What is it, Jerr?
Yeah, that too. Exactly -- I would've given Randa and Burnitz exactly the contracts they were given.
by PositivePaul on Jan 23, 2007 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Guess how much the Mariners have to pay Carl
by Mariner John on Jan 23, 2007 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Nope -
by Steve Nelson on Jan 23, 2007 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
Not really
by Graham MacAree on Jan 24, 2007 1:47 AM PST up reply actions
Still
The Bucs made two stupid signings last offseason with Randa and Burnitz.
The M's are still on the hook for the next three years with one of their signings. The Bucs aren't.
I don't see why this is difficult to follow.
The Everett signing was far worse
Really, that's $16.5M+ (3 years of Vidro) plus 5 prospects, just trying to undo the Everett disaster.
pLease, could we have screwed up with Randa instead?
Uh
by Graham MacAree on Jan 24, 2007 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
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