AAaarrrggghhhh

by Greybear on Aug 24, 2006 1:32 PM PDT

What is it with the "fastball fascination." Kenji gets ripped in the paper today.

"With catcher Rene Rivera trying hard to establish Hernandez's considerable fastball (one problem regular catcher Kenji Johjima has had is calling too many off-speed pitches), the youngster's first 16 pitches were all heaters."

And, IMAO, that was precisely his problem. Felix' fastball is a "show me" pitch. The dangerous parts of his arsenal are his curve and slider. He'd be a much more effective pitcher if they'd quit trying to "establish" that farking fastball.

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You'd think

that they'd stop trying to beat this approach into him, seeing as how it's produced fairly terrible results so far.

by oompagooba on Aug 24, 2006 1:39 PM PDT reply actions

While its good in theory

I can't think of a single pitcher that has been able to have prolonged success without having a solid fastball that he can spot in good locations.

Until Felix can regularly command his fastball... he's going to remain a pitcher lie we are seeing this year.... for example.. Gil Meche.. if he could consistently spot his fastball, he wouldn't be nearly as problematic as he is.

Yes Felix has a good curve and a good changeup.. but he still doesn't have complete command of either of those to be able to eliminate the fastball.

With the way this year is standing right now, Felix should be going out there and throwing alot more fastballs, to get his command of it down at this level.. for next season. Because if he doesn't get better command of it... we'll be looking at Felix '06 part deux in '07

by MfaninAlaska on Aug 24, 2006 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't you just love sportswriters...

Knuckleheads....

I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...

by Dollar97 on Aug 24, 2006 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions

I question this.

Aren't there pitchers who are quite wild in the strike zone with their fast ball? They aren't consistent, but keep players off balance with their pitch selection.

by rtang on Aug 24, 2006 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh I agree

that he needs to be able to spot his fastball to be an ace, I just don't think that emphasizing it at the expense of his strikeout pitch is the best approach for him right now.

by oompagooba on Aug 24, 2006 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

also

attitude is a problem. He has heard himself called "king" since the beginning. It has started to go to his head.

by ppl4life on Aug 24, 2006 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Ummmm....

bull.

He doesn't have the command of his fastball like he did last year, and he's not being directed to pitch toward his strength given that fact.

I doubt it has anything to do with attitude.

by rtang on Aug 24, 2006 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Think what you will

my friend. Thank you for not agreeing with people that see him everyday.

by ppl4life on Aug 25, 2006 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Well...

Hargrove sees him everyday, but I'm not sure I would take his word for it.

Give us something more solid, more empirical and I'd more inclined to accept it. This sounds too much like "conventional wisdom" (which is frequently not) for me to take on face value.

To put it another way, if these people who see him everyday have their a screwed up approach to the game, then you really can't accept their word for it.

by rtang on Aug 25, 2006 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

I'd take PPL4LIFE's word for it...

Considering who his brother is ;-)

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions

But on another plane...

It's very clear that Bavasi's philosophy of agressively promoting guys until they struggle is at work here. Felix has never really struggled before. He's been pumped up as the franchise's savior, and even he recognizes his 'royal' persona.

The M's have tried to downplay this as much as they can with him, recognizing that one of the ways to bring Felix down was to let his success and über-prospect-dom get to his head. Indeed he's über-poised for the typical 20-year-old, and probably more prepared for the majors than most other 20-year-olds. But he is still rather young, and maturity is still an issue here.

There are all kinds of things wrong with Felix this season -- he's pitched decently, even if it isn't up to everyone's expectations. He's not the "Mariners Messiah" quite yet -- he still has to learn to pitch here. It's very obvious by his continual struggles that he's a work-in-progress.

Yeah, stats are important. But you really cannot ignore the attitude. His attitude coming into camp overweight, his attitude as shown in his mound presence. His crown is tarnished in my opinion, and until he pulls his head out of his idol's you-know-what, he'll be Freddy Garcia reincarnate in my book.

Whether it's the organization's philosophy with Felix, or Felix's own attitude (likely both) -- there's still a lot of work to be done. Felix needs to grow up and pitch. We all know he can. He just needs to do it.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Who's his brother?

"I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!!"
--Stewie Griffin AND Josh Beckett

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Aug 25, 2006 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Read my signature...

(or is it too difficult to click on someone's name to pull up their LookoutLanding profile)

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Oh!

ppl4life is/was elsid? Why the name change?

"I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!!"
--Stewie Griffin AND Josh Beckett

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Aug 25, 2006 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

As elsid

I stated that I would not post here again. I decided that I would post, and I wanted to promote my home based biz, so hence the namechange.

I still try not to post much. However, I do have an inside track. There are things that many, if not all of you don't see on a daily basis or hear in the news or from the media. You don't hear things behind closed doors -- nor will I repeat them. Just know, coming from a former pitcher (nothing special of course), that the mental aspect of things is one of the main points to have in baseball. Felix doesn't have that right now, except for thinking that he is the greatest. It takes much more than that to be great. I am not taking anything away from him at all. He has the ability to be great, now has to put the attitude and endurance to show that.

by ppl4life on Aug 25, 2006 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions

I noticed the name change

but wasn't going to say anything. But I think you bring interesting perspectives just as a baseball fan regardless of who your brother is, so I hope you go ahead and continue posting.

Felix definitely has some maturing to do, and the hype probably hasn't helped. But on the other hand, gah, he's 20, which I'm always astounded by when I see him. Baseball aging is like dog aging or something... not a direct correspondence exactly, but they're a puppy at 20, old at 30, dead at 40, Moyer at 44. So Felix just needs to be house-trained :)

(but, as a complete tangent, your brother HAS been the most fun player in the bullpen to take pictures of the last few weeks as I work with my new camera. I hope he doesn't think I'm stalking him... I can never tell whether the players can see the crazy people with big cameras behind the fence.)

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Aug 25, 2006 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Usually

he can't see who is back there, since there are so many. He doesn't really care about who takes pics. Paul has taken maybe a bazillion

by ppl4life on Aug 25, 2006 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Does George

ever read this site?

"I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!!"
--Stewie Griffin AND Josh Beckett

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Aug 25, 2006 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Normally

his g/f does, which can sometimes get me in trouble if I leak to much info. He has been on a few, Morsels is one (since it is about him -- sort of), this one on occasion.

Jeff -- he hates seeing the "-" sign besides his score so much.

by ppl4life on Aug 25, 2006 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions

About that "-" sign...

Jeff -- he hates seeing the "-" sign besides his score so much.

Heh. I blame Hargrove for seeing GS52 as a LOOGY. Hard to affect your WE/WPA score when you only get to face one batter a game. And when you're constantly squeezed by umps ;-)

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Then he'll be thrilled to hear...

that, according to my cumulative numbers, his WPA is the third-highest on the team.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 25, 2006 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Hey now...

I've only taken a few. He's been in Seattle all year (yay!), and I've been to 3x as many games at Cheney as I have at Safeco. Deanna's definitely got the larger assortment of GS52 pix. It's all good -- I've got a nice collection of HB26 pix that I'll swap for her GS52 collection ;-)

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions

well, that's good to know

I know Jarrod Washburn can see the people behind the fence and even the ones with the cameras -- he's made faces at me several times, and he's always practically holding conversations with people while he's warming up... I figured it was a lefty/righty thing though, since the home team lefties actually face the fence and are more likely to notice.

A few weeks ago I was pretty much literally like two feet from George though, and he has this hitch in his windup where he looks straight forward for a split second, so I kept trying to catch that, but I didn't want him to be staring down the barrel of a camera lens each time he looked over! Unfortunately, the fence makes it really tough to do, but ah well.

And hey, it's not my fault George has ninety times more personality than anyone else in the Mariners bullpen (save -maybe- Dominic Woody, but how many people besides me bother to know/care about a team's bullpen catcher?). I don't really miss Shiggy or Eddie's old arms exactly, but most of the current crew (Green, Putz, Woods, Mateo, etc) are dead boring to take pictures of :)

(and Paul -- yeah, you're on! Hopefully Hunter will get the September callup he rightfully deserves and I can stalk him when I get back from Japan...)

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Aug 25, 2006 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Ah!

I am suitably chastised (and, yes, I am too stupid to read the profiles...).

by rtang on Aug 25, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

To be fair...

I can see how people wouldn't think to do this. After all, since so many of the profiles are empty or made up, why would anyone think to do this after awhile?

No biggy. Not trying to make anyone look stupid. Just trying to help bring some context to the discussion...

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Well...

...I think I'd prefer more evidence on the attitude part. If he's lackadasical on studying the hitters, and pays little attention to the catchers, yeah....that's attitude.

Coming into camp overweight isn't good--but that's once; you can chalk that up to youthful stupidity. Doing it twice....

by rtang on Aug 25, 2006 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions

All ballplayers have egos

You have to have a thick-skinned ego to hack it in MLB. It isn't for mental wussies.

Even if I didn't have a decent idea of what goes on behind the scenes with the M's, Felix has come across to me as a kid who's clearly got some maturity issues to deal with. It's more likely due to his age and the common things you deal with at that age.

But he's acting like he did last year in Tacoma -- losing his poise on the mound and losing his edge on his stuff. I attribute it to being bored last year -- being touted as sitting 'above' the rest of the league, and totally clueless as to why he's not performing up to his usual standards. He doesn't appear to be doing whatever it takes to get back on track -- rather, he's showing disdain for having to work on things because he's relied so much on his talent.

I was the same way when I was Felix's age in college. I had quite the ego with my math skills, having coasted through math all throughout my schooling. When I actually hit a class that finally challenged me, I began to realize that in spite of my parents and friends thinking I was this hugely great math whiz, I actually completely sucked. Maybe I wasn't that bad in reality, but I just didn't put in the effort that was needed to really polish my math skills and take me to the next level.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Aug 25, 2006 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions

Attitude...

...is visible. If Felix really carried himself like a guy who thinks of himself as "King", he'd be a lot more prima-donna; he'd be wearing fat ropes around his neck, he'd treat the media and fans with the contempt that most athletes think they deserve, and he'd generally walk around like he owned the world.

This isn't the Felix Hernandez I see. I see a kid who's 20 years old, trying to adjust to major league hitters that make pitchers look stupid every single day, and having the normal struggles up the learning curve that any kid would have. Just because everyone anointed him the Next Big Thing in March doesn't mean he won't struggle to get there.

When you say you "see Felix every day", what exactly do you mean? Do you work for the M's? Are you his neighbor?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Aug 25, 2006 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Never mind my question...

...about why you see him every day. didn't read your profile first.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Aug 25, 2006 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions

It was painful

Yes, he got two quick outs, but after a couple of walks, couldn't Rivera have tossed in a 'show me' change or a curve ball?

I've heard that Felix's curve isn't that bad... and yet they're terrified to call for it.

As for command of his fastball, if he doesn't have it for a night, he's still the kind of kid that can grit out a great performance. Mixing in the curve and change, and pitching to contact with the FB might have produced a very Chien-ming Wang-like result. Instead, the Yankees sat on the FB and either took it for a walk, or put a short swing on and got base hits. Telling him to keep throwing it until he could command it was suicidal.

by marc w on Aug 24, 2006 2:41 PM PDT reply actions

Rene the Philosopher

It's hard to have a lot of confidence in the World According to Rivera. Chavez must be directing this course, and on this one, I think Kenji is right. On the other hand, until Felix DOES get command of his fastball, he's not going to be the TOR character we're hoping for...

rightly, in every age it is assumed we are witnessing the disappearance of the last traces of paradise... Cioran

by toonprivate on Aug 24, 2006 5:43 PM PDT reply actions