Joel to the bullpen?

by JPWood on Jun 15, 2006 2:00 AM PDT Comment 43 comments

Finnigan this morning quoting his usually reliable FO sources:

"Sources say the Mariners are considering moving Pineiro to the bullpen to give him a chance to work out the troubles that have seen him tagged for a 1-5 record and a 7.54 earned-run average in those games.

"Asked if it was a coincidence that left-hander Jake Woods was allowed to stretch out to four innings in relief of Pineiro, a club official responded: "No, it was not."

Can't say I like Woods that much as a SP, but with Joel clearly unable to get third strikes or third outs, something has to give.

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Wonder who they are gonna send to the

rotation?

Watch it be Jake Woods...

He's King Felix alright. No argument here. We couldn't catch a break to save our behinds today, but the kid on the mound just mowed us fucking down.~Rev

by Goose on Jun 15, 2006 3:08 AM PDT reply actions

I'm glad I'm spending the next two weeks

Being wasted if Woods is a starter.

by Graham on Jun 15, 2006 6:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Good chance it's Woods...

with Nags having bombed atomically this week, Livingston and Foppert not ready and Cruceta not on the 40-man.

Still, I don't see how he could be even worse than Joel has been lately. His ERA and WHIP over his last 3 starts barely fit on my calculator. The Ms have almost nothing invested in Woods and a pile in Pineiro, who is rapidly becoming a junior version of Russ Ortiz. I can see this as a last-ditch effort to something of value out of him, and not much more.

JPWood

by JPWood on Jun 15, 2006 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions

wait what?? Woods? In the rotation?

Can't we just punt every 5th game instead and at least rest some position players?

Reasons this doesn't make sense:
-That takes the only lefty out of the pen who can get righties out**
-You're adding another righty in the pen thus taking away pretty much any chance Fruto has of pitching.
-It makes way more sense than to bring up a lefty.
-It also makes way more sense to send down Fruto to keep giving him regular work.
-You don't want Jake Woods pitching.
Solution? Demote Fruto, promote Livingston, put Livingston in rotation.

Maybe putting Pineiro in the pen would let him get back a few of those lost MPH, making him instantly more effective and maybe luring a GM into giving us something potentially useful in return for a guy who's under club control for another year.

**at least, more consistently than Eddie and George.

by Matthew on Jun 15, 2006 7:16 AM PDT reply actions

Except

Livingston himself has blown since his demotion back to Tacoma.

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions

he cant be worse than Woods will be as

a starter

by Matthew on Jun 15, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions

In the long run, no

Right now, though, he's as lost as Joel. I will admit that calling him up and disusing him before sending him away was a terrible thing to do.

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Except...

... the "club control" requires going to arbitration or signing him to a deal before you go to arbitration. Piñeiro makes 6.25 million now. Even if you gave him the maximum salary cut, why on Earth would you pay him 5 million? Jason Johnson was 4 million last year. Piñeiro is now in the Ryan Franklin class of garbage 5th starters, who give you innings while being shelled- are they being signed to 5 million dollar deals?

It would be MUCH smarter to decline arbitration and make him a free agent (and signable at any dollar amount by anyone)...which means you lose club control.

So basically, club control HURTS Piñeiro's value right now, because of how arbitration works... it doesn't help it.

by eponymous coward on Jun 15, 2006 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions

it cant possibly hurt his value

since you can just simply refuse to offer him arb

by Matthew on Jun 15, 2006 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Trade him

Right now I say do anything in our power to trade him. Im sure the team needs a new bag of BP balls.

Actually I would LOVE to flip him to Pittsburgh for Oliver Perez. Honestly, how much worse could Perez be than Piniero and how much worse could Piniero be than Perez?

by tkballer22 on Jun 15, 2006 7:18 AM PDT reply actions

you can't trade him now

he has no value. Putting in the pen to rebuild value is a good idea.

by Matthew on Jun 15, 2006 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Are Hargrove and Bavasi on Celebrity Jeopardy?

"And...you're an idiot!"

Seriously- they want to start Woods? WTF? I guess they think that just because the M's can't hit mediocre left handed pitching, the rest of the AL will have the same problem?

by eponymous coward on Jun 15, 2006 8:32 AM PDT reply actions

Not that I think banishing Pi?ero is bad...

but Woods? Ugh. What a bad joke.

by eponymous coward on Jun 15, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions

If so

I called it.

Yeah, sending Joel out there again in 5 days to suck again helps no one. At least the Mariners realize this and are considering giving him the Carlos Silva treatment.

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 9:07 AM PDT reply actions

Hmmm...

Maybe YOU'RE Finnigan's inside source...

;-)

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Jun 15, 2006 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions

And I may have to off myself

YAY JOSE!

by WAB on Jun 15, 2006 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Jake Woods?

Livingston might not be totally ready but isn't he a better option than Jake Woods?

Or better yet why not DFA Carl Everett, add Cruceta to the 40 man and have him take the spot. Send Fruto down and call someone else up to replace Everret on the bench. Snelling if he's healthy enough, but I'd even take Bohn or Choo as a backup outfielder. You could use Petagine as your DH until Snelling is ready to takeover.

Or does that make too much sense?

by arbeck77 on Jun 15, 2006 9:12 AM PDT reply actions

I like this idea

Not a bad idea.

But I don't see the M's pulling the plug on Everett now. He will have at least until August 1st without being DFA'd.

When I first heard about Wood, I thought 'ugh'. But really, who cares. Maybe Wood turns out to be servicable. He would be hard pressed to suck worse than Pineiro.

I like the idea of getting Joel some time in the pen to sort himself out. His trade value can't get any lower. And it would give the M's a chance to look at some of the other starters.

When Woods shows he isn't up for it, I would expect to see a bunch more guys get a shot, including Cruceta, Livingston, and perhaps even Nageotte. Why not?

by Jerry on Jun 15, 2006 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Snelling...

isn't really tearing it up in AAA. Why are they going to move him up. Oh yeah, the Morse rule, suck in AAA and you will do decent in the bigs.

by elsid on Jun 15, 2006 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Ehh

It's not like we have a ton of options. Anyone they choose to put in Pineiro's spot is a risk of letting the game spiral out of control.

by ThundaPC on Jun 15, 2006 9:22 AM PDT reply actions

A quick perusal...

...of the M's web site, like I did yesterday, shows that we actually have two spots on the 40-man. They're probably saving one for Morrow, I'd imagine, provided he's getting a 40-man MLB contract.

So, if the M's wanna scrounge the waiver wire or bring up Cruceta, a 40-man slot shan't be a problem. A 25-man slot, though, is another story.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Jun 15, 2006 9:36 AM PDT reply actions

Morrow isn't going to get a 40 man contract

by Matthew on Jun 15, 2006 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Foppert?

Whats the problem with getting Foppert a shot? He can't be any worse than our other options and at least he still has percieved upside.

by armedpp on Jun 15, 2006 10:09 AM PDT reply actions

Probably...

...competency. I think he looks worse than the bozos we already have.

by rtang on Jun 15, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Foppert...

Has not been progressing -- if anything, he's fading away. He's had some injury issues lately that might explain some things, but I think the general word on the street is that Foppert isn't working out.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Jun 15, 2006 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions

Foppert

Velocity gone. Control gone.

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Foppert

He gone.

Don't bother me, I'm hustling.

by Phildopip on Jun 15, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT ONE

OFF THE BOOOOOOOOARD, YES!

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Then there is the issue

that Foppert in on the DL. His arm just isn't holding up to the grind of pitching.

What about... here it comes, here it comes... Jeff Harris? He is more than ready to come off the DL. He's been pitching down in Arizona and has been very effective. Last outing he got 7 outs with 11 pitches (including an error by the shortstop). He could step into the starting role right away (he has experience).

That is certainly a better option than Nageotte or Livingston (who are really struggling to get straightened out), or Woods (no experience).

by kva15 on Jun 15, 2006 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Harris

needs to pitch against some quality guys, or at least close to quality guys in AAA. Just as RC is working his way up, with one stop at each A, Harris should work at AAA. He only has 8.1 IP in AAA so far this year, and he wasn't tearing it up there at the time.

by elsid on Jun 15, 2006 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions

re: Harris

Jeff was doing extremely well in Tacoma, except for his second to last appearance (when he was pitching hurt). I agree that Jeff needs to be pitching at AAA (for a little while) and then he needs to be in Seattle. From what I'm hearing, he should be activated any day now.

By the way, his injury occurred on the baseball field, but was not pitching-related.

by kva15 on Jun 15, 2006 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Harris

I totally agree with KVA on Harris. He had a zero era till the bench clearing brawl in Fresno. Then was pitching hurt. He's already proven he can pitch against quality batters. He beat Texas, in Texas, Then the Yankees at Safeco last season. And if I'm not mistaken, he's the first Mariner to throw 5 shutout innings in his major league debut since 1997. He started this season on the 25 man roster and was sent down to make room for Lawton (who's gone now) and it was between Borchard or Harris, and Borchard is gone also. He can get lefties out better than Woods. Woods may be pitching shutout innings of late, but his inherited runners scoring is not good.
All around, I think Harris is the guy for either the pen or a starter if needed. He proved himself last year and the beginning of this year.

by BLM on Jun 15, 2006 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions

SORIANO

to SP. All I am going to say because that is all that is needed to be said.

by Edgar for Pres on Jun 15, 2006 3:50 PM PDT reply actions

I hate to disagree with you but...

that would weaken our bullpen too much in order for it to be worth it.

by basebliman on Jun 15, 2006 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Also

This assumes that Soriano, who is only exposed to opposing teams 1-2 innings at a time, would be effective over 5-7 innings, as he has to pace himself, he wears down and lineups get to see him multiple times a game.

by Gomez on Jun 15, 2006 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Yep.

And, let's face it. Soriano hasn't exactly been lights out himself lately. He's gettin' hit a lot lately. In his last 6.1 IPs, he's given up 9 hits, including a grand salami. No, he's not walking anyone.

I'd be willing to be that his HR/9 would go up rather significantly were he to be placed in the starting rotation.

He certainly still throws strikes, though, and that's what you want in a pitcher.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Jun 15, 2006 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Soriano's real value

to the Mariners is only going to be seen if he becomes a SP. Sure, he's a great bullpen guy but good bullpen guys are a dime, a dozen. Plus, the mariners have bullpen guys down in the minors but don't have any SP. If he isn't healthy enough to be a SP then he isn't but if he isn't a good enough pitcher to start then he's been fooling everybody.

by Edgar for Pres on Jun 15, 2006 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree with Paul on this

his extreme flyball nature would be a gamble in the starting rotation.

Don't bother me, I'm hustling.

by Phildopip on Jun 15, 2006 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Well I'd rather

have Soriano (w/ all his flyball tendencies) than Jake Woods. Woods isn't a good pitcher.

The only other name I can come up with that hasn't been mentioned would be Mateo. He's not an exciting pitcher but he's probably better than Woods.

Looking at the situation, I don't really think it makes sense to move Pineiro to the bullpen unless he's injured in some way. We don't really have anyone able to fill in the rotation for him so you'd just open up another hole.

by Edgar for Pres on Jun 15, 2006 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions

For the record...

I agree with ya, EdgarForPres!

I'm actually not completely adverse to putting Soriano in the rotation for a bit, just to see what would happen. Word seems to be that they're not going to this year (injury factor) but it's not out of the question entirely still.

While I also believe Soriano's flyball problems would be extremely exposed, were he to go 2-3 times through a batting order, I do believe he's a good enough pitcher to work his way around it. He's definitely got the stuff and the talent to be in the rotation. I'm just not sure he's got the endurance.

Jake Woods = Matt Thornton. Would you want Thornton in your starting rotation? I most certainly wouldn't. I'd prefer Harris, were he ready, but most certainly I'm on the Cruceta bandwagon.

Free George Sherrill. And Dan Rohn.

by PositivePaul on Jun 15, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

What do you guys think

about a guy skipping Tacoma and coming straight into the rotation. Justin Thomas is having a really good year in AA. Also, Blackley looks like he's starting to get his stuff together but I don't really know the situation on either of these guys.

Justin Thomas this year in AA
G 12
IP 67
ERA 3.09
K/9 8.06
BB/9 2.42
K/BB 3.33

Travis Blackley in AA
G 13
IP 74
ERA 4.14
K/9 6.22
BB/9 2.65
K/BB 2.35

by Edgar for Pres on Jun 15, 2006 7:22 PM PDT reply actions

No

Justin Thomas is in High-A. He has only been there for two starts, after spending most of the year in Low-A. So that is out of the question.

Blackley needs innings.

The first guy to go into the rotation should be Cruceta. The second option is Livingston. After that, the options become much much less palatable.

I would almost rather see the M's pick up Russ Ortiz or Kyle Lohse.

The best option could be trying to pick up Jeff Weaver. If the M's agreed to take on the rest of his salary, it would cost next to nothing. I think that Weaver would do well in Safeco.

If not, no worries. If he does well, the M's could consider resigning him. Or perhaps get some free draft picks when he leaves.

by Jerry on Jun 15, 2006 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions

I wouldn't mind seeing

his crazy breaking pitches in a Mariners uniform. Granted, he's a headcase, but so was Freddy Garcia. If he can give us the occasional stellar game, and pitch somewhat effectively (read: Meche of 2006 like) I'd be in favor of getting Weaver.

Don't bother me, I'm hustling.

by Phildopip on Jun 16, 2006 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions