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Around SBN: Holy War Week Brings out the Worst in Fans

Sunday Baseball

Fewer than 24 hours after getting their asses handed to them by Oakland, the Mariners found themselves on the business end of a 15-4 throttling, courtesy of the Anaheim Angels. For what feels like the billionth time this spring (only a slight exaggeration), nobody pitched well and Richie Sexson was really the only guy supplying much in the way of offense. Which actually sounds a lot like last year, at least when Felix wasn't starting.

Fringe Bullpen Candidates And Their ST ERA's:

Scott Atchison: 14.54
Jake Woods: 8.38
Kevin Appier: 2.84
Dave Burba: 16.22
Sean Green: 11.37
Luis Gonzalez: 9.00
Francisco Cruceta: 4.50
Clint Nageotte: 6.23
Jeff Harris: 8.10
George Sherrill?: 16.50

There's one good ERA in the entire group, and it scares the hell out of me. Kevin Appier:Mariners as Left Eye:Andre Rison's house.

The other way to look at it, of course, is that while the guys near the bottom of the depth chart have had awful springs, the locks have been anywhere from acceptable to terrific, with Julio Mateo being the only pitcher guaranteed a roster spot to have an ERA over 4. And while I realize that ERA is an awful way to judge performance, particularly over such limited samples, it's really quick, and shut up. In case you were curious, Hernandez/Moyer/Washburn/Pineiro/Meche have combined for an FIP right around 4.00 with a decent K/BB. I'm not thrilled, but I'm certainly not disappointed.

Jose Lopez went 1-3 after being named the team's official starting second baseman. As much as I believe that he was essentially guaranteed the spot all along, Vina and Bloomquist batting a combined .178 with two extra-base hits probably didn't make the decision any tougher. The lesson here is that if you're dead set on establishing an ST battle for a roster spot, you'd better be damn sure that you have at least two players willing and able to participate.

In other position player news, Joe Borchard started in center (again) and went 1-4 the day after blasting a home run off Chad Gaudin. I bring this up not because I wish to further discuss the team's new acquisition, but because I wanted to find a decent segue into a quick talk about Jeremy Reed and didn't know how else to do it. The reason I am so disappointed by Reed's injury is that I have fairly high hopes for this year's Mariners, and a significant improvement by Reed at the plate is a big reason why. When I say that I expect the team to win 80+ games, it's not with a center fielder who has an OPS in the .670's; it's with a quality glove whose OPS is somewhere around or above .750 instead. I don't think Borchard is going to be a better player than Reed in either department this year, so as long as we're without our starter, the team's in worse shape than I'd like it to be, and their record will suffer as a result. And given that this is a Mariner team who needs all the wins it can get to have a shot at contending, it sucks to know that we might already be giving one or two away before the season even starts.

It's not a long-term issue; Reed should heal up and be fine, if a little anxious around walls. It's a selfish issue, in that I want this team to be as good as possible because I don't think it's okay to write off its chances of contending so soon just because they've sucked two years in a row. And this is the heart of the situation - people who think the Mariners could contend are probably more shaken up by Reed's injury than people who think that there's no hope. Those people are more likely to be looking forward to a few weeks of Joe Borchard in center, because they see this as a rebuilding year anyway, and why not find out what we have on our hands? Given the preceeding stance on the season, it's a perfectly legitimate opinion to have. It's just one that I don't happen to share.

In other news, Felix Hernandez has been scratched from his scheduled Wednesday start due to a minor case of shin splints. He'll reduce his running workload from "none at all" to "eating chips while the other guys jog foul poles" until it heals up. The last thing we need is for Felix to screw up his mechanics even more by trying to pitch through pain.

Gil Meche against the Rangers tomorrow afternoon.

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I never thought we'd compete...
but am still pretty freaked by the Reed injury. Jeff, you say that Reed'll "heal up and be fine" but couldn't a wrist injury  sap his power for now and thereafter?

by John Morgan on Mar 26, 2006 11:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

M's = non-compete?
http://yankeefan.blogspot.com/2006/03/2006-diamond-mind-projection-blowout.html

I'm surprised PECOTA has us at 84-78 and Diamond Mind at 81-81.  

Either way, Reed's injury sucks.  Aren't wrist injuries considered the ones to be afraid of for hitters (like shoulder/labrum injuries for pitchers)?

by Trev on Mar 27, 2006 3:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I never thought we'd compete...
A sprained wrist (or an undetected broken wrist, for that matter) would be more likely to linger and cause problems. Generally, if you break something, it should heal up fine with minimal after-effects.

by Jeff on Mar 27, 2006 4:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True
Guys try to play through sprains often times.  A break is a break: you have no choice but to stop and heal up.

by Gomez on Mar 27, 2006 12:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily
It depends what bone you break.  In Reed's case, he broke the one you don't want to break, because even 8 weeks in a cast doesn't guarantee healage.

http://www.sportspot.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8349&view=findpost&p=175032

Just an FYI from one Ms site to another.  Hopefully the doc Reed went to for his wrist has a better outlook than I do after actually seeing the injury, but at first glance that 6 week timeframe everybody's quoting seems unreasonably optimistic to me.

~G

by gmoney on Mar 27, 2006 12:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.
Thanks?

I don't know if that's really what I wanted to hear.

by Jeff on Mar 27, 2006 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

G is correct
The wrist bones are really problematic because of low blood flow.  They just don't heal quickly, and often times they will take forever.  

I don't know about the source that G cited (don't have time to read it) but I have broken my scaphoid bone.  It took forever to heal.  They often become arthritic.  I had to wear a brace for 2 1/2 months.  But even after I ditched it, it took a while to get back to normal.  I am sure that there are ways to speed up the healing (legal ways, that is).  But you would want to make sure that the injury is totally healed before swinging a bat.  

by Jerry on Mar 27, 2006 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heal, Jeremy, heal
Low overall expectations here, too, but Reed was going to be part of two major pleasures I WAS expecting -- the growth of the young players (YuBet, Lopez, Reed, Felix) and the vengeance of last year's "problem" guys (Beltre, Reed, even Ichiro).  So, just from that selfish standpoint, it's disappointing.

Dear, Jeremy, it's possible to be an excellent fielder and still allow your self-preservation gene to kick in out there (See: Ichiro).

rightly, in every age it is assumed we are witnessing the disappearance of the last traces of paradise... Cioran

by toonprivate on Mar 27, 2006 8:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Contention vs Rebuilding
I don't really see a huge difference between what the pessimists and the optimists among us are hoping for.  It is more a difference in what is given the most weight: winning or building.  Ideally, the M's can improve to around .500 or so while also continuing to retool and develop guys who will help the team long-term.  Count me as one of the people in the rebuilding camp.  I think that rebuilding the roster for 2007 is more important than the teams record in 2006.  But that doesn't mean that the club shouldn't be trying to win.  Although people tend to pose this issue as a "winning versus rebuilding" question, I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive.  

I am pretty torn about the Reed situation.  On the one hand, I admit that I am excited to see what Borchard can do.  The M's have had a lot of marginal prospects and role players leave the club, and later emerge as very good players (Scott Podsednik, Raul Ibanez, Jose Guillen, etc).  On the other side, we have had a lot of guys crap out when they do arrive (Miguel Olivo, Jeff Cirillo, Ben Davis).  It would be really nice to see the M's pick up a player on the cheap and have him emerge as a very good player for once.  On the other hand, Reed is a young player, and if the club is the big suprise contender of 2006, he is likely to be a major part of it.  

But the point is, developing players is not at all an alternative to winning.  Look at what the guys that the M's let leave did for their respective teams when they did break out.  Podsednik, Ibanez, and Guillen were all major contributors to clubs that were rapidly improving.  

Borchard is the type of player that improving teams can get a huge boost from.  Most teams that improve by 10-15 wins in a given season will have one or two players who come out of nowhere and emerge as starters or even star caliber guys.  

I am just using Borchard as an example here.  I don't really expect him to break out and become an all-star.  But I would much rather see guys like him in the lineup than guys like Carl Everett.  If the M's hadn't wasted money on him, they could have picked up Petagine, Hee Seop Choi, and Carlos Pena, and let them battle it out for the DH job, and spend the remaining 3 million dollars on international free agents.  That alternative would help the team now and in the future.  A pleasant surpise is more likely to emerge from that group and help the club in 2005 than Everett.  

Really, the only situation where I see winning/rebuidling being a real either/or situation is at the trade deadline.  The M's will have to decide whether or not it is in their best interest to trade guys like Guardado, Pineiro and Meche before August 1st.  If they are around .500, that becomes a tough choice.  Hopefully, the M's will have guys like Soriano, Nageotte, Foppert, and Livingston emerge as viable replacements or even upgrades, and the M's will be dealing from a position of strength.  However, with these guys, I would much rather see the M's err on the side of long-term building than going into win-now mode this year.  The M's lack depth, and mid-season trades are a great way to restock the system.  

I would be amazed if the M's are in a position to be legit contenders in June.  But this is something that will likely sort itself out over the course of the next few months.  

by Jerry on Mar 27, 2006 8:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

As a side note
It is spring and I am feeling pretty optimistic (for a pessimist).  

Could you imagine how much a breakout, cinderella story season from Borchard would do for the M's.  

The M's have a huge gaping hole at LF/DH right now.  The club also needs a big LF power bat to balance a very mediocre lineup.  The M's could really use a solid hitter for the middle of the lineup.

The M's really really need one player to break out, and start putting up .275/.360/.520 30 HR type numbers.  That is basically Cliff Floyd, Dave Delucci, Hideki Matsui, or Geoff Jenkins-type production.  

I am hoping that Borchard can be that guy.  A full healthy season from Chris Snelling could also qualify.  Shin-Soo Choo is another player who could fill that role.  He has the speed and plate discipline, and just needs to start lifting the ball more.  

I know that it is a total long shot, and that expecting big things from Borchard is just setting yourself up for disappointment.  But watching him yesterday, when he had an uneventful game, you could still see the latent talent there.  He missed an opposite-field grand slam by a few feet.  If he can make decent contact, everything else could fall into place.  

How awesome would it be if he emerges as a legit long-term option in LF?  He would improve the outfield defense as well as provide that one missing piece from the offense.  

by Jerry on Mar 27, 2006 8:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

we literally just need
Snelling healthy. Then he plays LF and puts up that line, probably less HR, but whatever. Raul moves back to DH. The defense is solid, the bats are all solid. The bench could have Lawton, Willie, Petagine, Carlos Pena (please!), and a backup C. It would be a pretty all around offense.

by Matthew on Mar 27, 2006 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right now...
the pitching needs all the help they can get.  Not that the offense has been great, but they have been decent.  4 runs will definitely not win many ballgames for the M's.  There is not much that the M's are going to do to increase any bats.  Pena if not already announced as being picked up by the M's, hasn't been.

by elsid on Mar 27, 2006 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of available bats
David Dellucci is available.  He would be a HUGE improvement over Everett.  

Dellucci 2005:
.251/.367/.513, .880 OPS, with 29 HRs, 76/121 BB/K in 435 ABs

Everett 2005:
.251/.311/.435, .746 OPS, with 23 HRs, 42/99 BB/K in 490 ABs

Salary:
Everett:   3.4 million
Dellucci:  $900,000

Before you dismiss Dellucci's stats as Arlington inflation, he was actually a lot better in away games (.262/.382/.545 with 15 HRs in 202 ABs).  

The Everett signing keeps looking worse and worse.  

by Jerry on Mar 27, 2006 11:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dellucci...
...had a nice year last year, but his career averages are probably a bit more indicative of what you'll get out of him now than his 2005.

Translated Career Stats:
Dellucci: .252/.342/.438

I'd still take that over Everett (and would have never done that deal in the first place), but using Dellucci's 2005 overstates his case.

by ubelmann on Mar 27, 2006 8:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really accurate
Career stats aren't really better than more recent stats.  With Dellucci, you have a guy who bounced around a whole lot, then put things together late in his career.  The guy didn't get regular playing time until he went to Texas.  

I don't really think that Dellucci's stats last year are aberrant.  At least, I don't know how you could back up an argument for that.  If you look back to 2004, he showed good plate discipline and solid improvement leading up to a great year last year.  

If there is some reason why you think that he can't match his 2005 performance, then perhaps there is something that I don't know about.  But Dellucci is a classic example of a guy whose career stats are pretty meaningless.  He had a bunch of years when he didn't get sufficient playing time.  It is a series of small sample sizes and sporadic playing time.  When he has played consistently the past two years, he has looked good.  

by Jerry on Mar 27, 2006 9:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Remember in early March when we said, "Don't worry if we're getting lit up right now.  If we're getting lit up in late, then it's time to worry?"

Um... yeah.

by Gomez on Mar 27, 2006 12:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Erm
in late March, I meant.

by Gomez on Mar 27, 2006 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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