Howard Lincoln tries to make amends

by jtopps on Sep 30, 2006 9:41 PM PDT

Well, I guess the echos of all those nasty letters must have reached all the way to the top. Atleast enough to make Lincoln try and make a response through the press before Friday's game.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/287132_lincoln30.html

There's not really anything remarkably here in this article, but I do think it's notable there was a response. The mere fact that the organization felt compelled to try and respond says that at least the fans' digust probably made a decent-sized stink.

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So this is Hargrove and Bavasi's last shot

Interesting.

Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death. Hello to eternity and live for every breath. Your Time will Come.

by Goose on Sep 30, 2006 10:08 PM PDT reply actions

As long as they know that if they don't perform,

it means their ass, then keeping them another year is slightly more acceptable.

by Nero on Sep 30, 2006 10:13 PM PDT reply actions

Nonsense

As I've posted elsewhere, Lincoln has totally contradicts himself. In his letter to season ticket holders, Lincoln says that Bavasi and Hargrove are the right people to build the team going forward.

Now Lincoln says Bavasi and Hargrove are on the hot seat. Of course, people are put on the hot seat only when it's not c;ear they are the right people for the job. Conversely, if they are the right people for the job, then there's no point to putting them on the hot seat.

Beyond that, Bavasi has been in his job for three years. If Bavasi hasn't by now established that he is the best candidate to lead the Mariners, then the inabiility to show he is the best is proof that he is not the best option. After three years on the job, top performers simply don't leave any doubts as to their abilities to fill the position.

An organization that is absolutely and utterly committed to being the best in its business simply does not wind up in the position Lincoln's ocmments indicate the Mariners are in. If Lincoln's statements are accurate - and I think his "hot seat" comments accurately reflect ownership sentiments - those comments expose indecisiveness that top performaing ornganizations do not countenance.

by Steve Nelson on Sep 30, 2006 11:17 PM PDT reply actions

Performance

Other than Hargrove, who has demonstrated his in-game & lineup malfeasances both years he's been in Seattle, it's hard to get a read on Bavasi because, purportedly, Lincoln keeps interfering with what Bavasi wants to do.

If Lincoln would fire himself, then we would get a better read on Bavasi. Same with the rest of management, it's hard to get a read on who's competent and who's not because Lincoln keeps meddling.

We are the holler men, we are the glove men, mouthpiece filled with plug: ptoo!

by Celadus on Oct 1, 2006 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Competent isn't good enough

I think you missed a key point.

I'm not interested in a competent GM; I want the Mariners to have an outstanding GM. Filling an organization with competent people measn that you have a middling organization. Companies that want to excel fill key roles with people who are beyond competent.

I agree with your notion as regards a "competent" GM. But even with Lincoln's involvement, an outstading GM would still have established his superiority by now. Meddling senior executives are pretty common in the business world; thatt's so common that it's a fact of like. Outstanding managers still demonstrate their mettle anyway. It's only with the competent and marginal that the picture remains obscured.

by Steve Nelson on Oct 2, 2006 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions

This, of course....

....assumes that a superior GM could be hired by this group of clowns.

Not sure that this is possible, given the stated managerial philosophy of Lincoln.

by rtang on Oct 2, 2006 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions

That can't be stated enough...

Of course we all know that if Bavasi were to be canned, that doesn't mean that CHowArmLinStrong would hire a better GM. They want "Yes" men. They don't want people who will drastically change the organizational philosophy. For that very reason, I'm not so sure Bavasi is a bad GM for Seattle. He certainly could invest the big bucks a lot better, but he hasn't been completely awful either. He's most certainly improved the farm system, and while he's got a ways to go there, too, it's in a lot better shape than it was when Gillick left.

The real problem with this ballclub is the philosophy and CHowArmLinStrong's management.

Are we there yet?

by PositivePaul on Oct 2, 2006 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Kind of hard to define

So what is the measure of what is acceptable performance for these guys? A winning season? Winning the west? ALCS? What if the team performs well inspite of Hargrove (As the have many times)? If the team comes out and blows April is that the end of Mix Master Mikey H? If Bavasi pulls some good moves this winter truly setting the team up for a chance to compete and it looks like shortly into 07 that 08 will really be the year, do you change directions? I mean, it's nice to see that they are paying attention to the frustration of the dedicated fans, but I don't know that the statement is anything that shouldn't have been painfully obvious to begin with.

Just thinking out loud....

by anotherjeff on Sep 30, 2006 11:18 PM PDT reply actions

So, in Other Words...

Are we there yet?

by PositivePaul on Sep 30, 2006 11:59 PM PDT reply actions

Dude...

L. O. L.

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." -Casey Stengel

by ConorGlassey on Oct 1, 2006 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions

HAHA, nice!

There should be a big picture of either Carl or Joel in the background, like how darth vader was in the background on the cover of all the star wars movies.

WIN IT FOR RAFFY!!!

by MFAN on Oct 1, 2006 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Well, duh

It's the last year of Bavasi and Grover's contract. OF COURSE this is their last shot.

Lincoln clearly thinks we're not very bright.

by Gomez on Oct 1, 2006 12:35 AM PDT reply actions

Hm

One possibility: there was so much professional tension that Lincoln tied Hargrove and Bavasi together and told them they're together--sink or swim.

by rtang on Oct 1, 2006 8:47 AM PDT reply actions

Which is stupid...

by Graham MacAree on Oct 1, 2006 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions

What's stupid?

Me thinking that? (Quite possible)

Or for Lincoln doing that (Quite possible as well....)

by rtang on Oct 1, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions

The latter.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 1, 2006 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions

I still see it as media backpedaling

though it doesn't really change anything: Bavasi and Hargrove will be given next year to make the necessary progress.

by Gomez on Oct 1, 2006 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Another sign that the M's...

Front office is run by Dear Abby and tea leaves...whichever way the wind blows.....Bavasi is building the team (given he inherited a farm system with little talent) and Hargrove is an idiot. That hasn't changed. The front office doing what they think the fans want....that hasn't changed. Nothing has changed. Three years of last place and nothing has changed. Shit.

I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...

by Dollar97 on Oct 1, 2006 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, I dunno if I'd say nothing

There's certainly enough new young talent to say this team's got some building blocks for the future on the big club.

But yeah, we've got the same front office, essentially, and the same dumbass manager. But how many teams DON'T have that problem? That said, they absolutely will need to take the next step up next season, and anything less than .500 or better ball against AL teams, with legit playoff contention, will probably result in someone's dismissal.

by Gomez on Oct 1, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions